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Brexit

Westministenders: Election Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:50

Tick tock, tick tock goes the Brexit Clock.

Don’t panic, just don’t turn up to debates because you have talks starting on the 19th June and have to perfect the 100 page document relating to at least 750 international agreements that need renegotiating before then. Anyone who turns up for their job interview for that, is just wasting time.

If only someone hadn’t called a distracting election.

This election was dubbed to be about Brexit. Yet it is remarkable that we have barely had debate over it. No one wants to admit it really. We nearly got a consensus between Barry Gardiner, Nick Clegg and David Davis over it being a political not economic decision on Question Time on Thursday 1st June, but we are not quite there yet with the admission that the economy is toast. This means the addition money the Conservatives have promised for the NHS won’t be available but we can’t have this discussion. Its properly the fault of purdah. Instead the subject rapidly got skipped over. Instead Davis said that the target May had just set for immigration to be at tens of thousands by 2022 was unrealistic.

In post-election rumour has it that Davis is about to get a promotion to the FCO, whilst Johnson gets the boot. On the other hand Gove is also rumoured for NI and May loyal Gummer gets Brexit.

Meanwhile the 1922 Committee of Tory Backbenchers are said to be plotting the downfall of at least one of May’s guard dogs, Nick Timothy following the decision about the Dementia Tax and subsequent U-Turn. Farage also mentioned Timothy in his statement over the breaking news that the CPS are pressing charges on the Conservative Candidate for South Thanet (the former MP there), his agent and a Tory Party official over election expenses. It seems almost inconceivable that Timothy can survive a traditional Tory Knifing.

This is all as May’s leadership approval ratings are in freefall as the honeymoon is firmly ends, after the public finally got to see her create an army of strawmen as answers, in a barely concealed contempt for the public’s concerns. May’s reaction to a negative reaction? Go back into hiding from media accountability and get the Mail to do her dirty work.

Elsewhere the EU have lined up to criticise Trump over his hard ball attempt to renegotiate the Paris Climate Deal. May was noticeable by her absence as she’s trying the same trick over Brexit and is desperate to keep Trump onside. What is Trump offering us in return? Apart from a Brexit Opportunity to get stiffed.

As for the polls? Despite them, it’s difficult to see the Tories not making a net seat gain. For Labour to do well it relies on widespread tactical voting, young who haven’t previously voted turning out in levels not seen since the 1970s and this being spread across the country and not concentrated in University areas. This will be tough to achieve to simply stop a Tory Landslide, never mind a hung parliament. Labour winning a majority is the stuff of pure fantasy (needs Lab to be 12points ahead of Cons). That said, if the result isn’t much different to the 2015 result, it will beg major questions over May’s leadership and her ability to read the public mood. It will say something about her refusal to engage with ‘the saboteurs’.

Expect an increased Tory Majority but not of the epic scale of 470 they originally were aiming for.

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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 14:56

It's soooo important to get the vote out.

Plus where it is.

Increasing your vote share in areas where you already hold the seat wins nothing.

It is marginals where elections are won and lost.

Election Data on twitter has done a lot of work on age ranges in marginals.

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 14:56

If Labour doesn't want to be in government then it shouldn't be a parliamentary party. It's the whole point.

You think that all the people who vote green do so because they think Lucas is going to be PM? Hmm

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 14:57

Not to mention lib Dems and independents...

woman12345 · 03/06/2017 14:58

What an election, never known anything like it! If this was a Richard Curtis film script it'd be slated as too improbable. Smile

Radio 4 Any Questions today interesting for the sense and practical responses of Starmer, and the ineffectual responses of Green.
Starmer is sounding more and more statesmanly, like JC.

The phone in afterwards seems to have been many older voters straying from tories to lib dem, green and labour.

Public services are losing this stage of the election for her.

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 15:00

In fact the idea that people only campaign for and vote for parties they are convinced are going to get into government is so patently false i am starting to think you are just making fun of me

citroenpresse · 03/06/2017 15:02

I've been a canvasser and pounded pavements and knocked on doors and all of us (I first campaigned for the LibDems), knew 'we 'wouldn't win'. That absolutely isn't the point. If you think in terms of 'win or lose' you might not think there IS a point, but people do have beliefs and values and think public engagement is important.

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 15:04

Updated List from YouGov seats 3/6

Notable changes from yesterday: Stoke South, Newcastle under Lyme, Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland, and Copeland all leaning Labour now. And St Ives (!) appears to have gone to toss up for the LDs.

Updated toss up list (Includes all seats that YouGov model have highlighted as tossup at any point. Seats currently predicted to change hands in italics):

Argyll and Bute -> NOW LIKELY SNP from Lean SNP CON/SNP (currently SNP – Brendan O’Hara)
Barrow and Furness - STILL toss up CON/LAB (Currently LAB - John Woodcock)
Bath -> BACK TO Toss up from Lean Con (Currently CON - Ben Howlett)
Battersea -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON – Jane Ellison)
Blackpool North and Cleveleys -> NOW LIKELY Con from Lean Con (Currently CON - Paul Maynard)
Canterbury -> NOW LIKELY Con from Lean Con CON/LAB (currently CON – Julian Brazier)
Carlisle -> STILL toss up CON/LAB (currently CON – John Stevenson)
Carmarthen East and Dinefwr - BACK to lean Plaid from Lean Labour PLAID/LAB (currently Plaid - Johnathan Edwards)
Carshalton and Wallington - STILL toss up CON/LD (currently LD – Tom Brake)
Copeland -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON – Trudy Harrison)
Crewe and Nantwich -> NOW Lean Con (currently CON - Edward Timpson)
East Devon -> NOW LIKELY other from Lean Con CON/IND (currently CON – Hugo Swire)
Eastbourne -> BACK TO toss up from Lean LD CON/LD (currently CON – Caroline Ansell)
Edinburgh West -> BACK TO toss up from Lean SNP LD/SNP (elected as SNP – No Incumbent)
Finchley and Golders Green -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON – Mike Freer)
Gower -> ^NOW Likely Labour (currently CON - Byron Davies)
Hastings and Rye -> BACK TO Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON - Amber Rudd)
Hendon -> NOW LIKELY Labour from Lean Labour (currently CON - Matthew Offord)
High Peak -> BACK TO toss up was Lean Con (currently CON - Andrew Bingham)
Keighley -> NOW Lean Labour from toss up CON/ LAB (currently CON – Kris Hopkins)
Lewes -> BACK TO toss up from Lean Con (currently CON - Maria Caulfield)
Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland -> BACK TO toss up from CON gain CON/LAB (currently LAB - Tom Blenkinsop)
Moray -> BACK TO toss up from Lean Con CON/SNP (currently SNP – Angus Robertson)
Newcastle-under-Lyme -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently LAB – Paul Farrelly)
Northampton North -> NOW Lean CON CON/LAB (currently CON – Michael Ellis)
North Norfolk ->BACK to toss up from CON gain CON/LD (currently LD - Norman Lamb)
Ochil and South Perthshire -> NOW Lean SNP – was showing as CON gain from SNP (Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh)
Orkney and Shetland -> BACK TO Lean LD LD/SNP (currently LD – Alistair Carmichael)
Oxford West and Abingdon -> BACK to tossup from Lean LD CON/LD (currently CON – Nicola Blackwood)
Pudsey -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON – Stuart Andrew)
Reading East -> STILL toss up CON/LAB (currently CON – Rob Wilson)
Richmond Park -> NOW Lean Con CON/LD (currently LD – Sarah Olney)
Sheffield Hallam -> BACK to Lean Labour was Likely Labour (Currently LD - Nick Clegg)
Southampton Itchen -> BACK TO Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON - Royston Smith)
South Swindon -> BACK TO toss up from Lean Con (currently CON - Robert Buckland)
Stockton South -> NOW Lean Con (currently CON - James Wharton)
Stoke-on-Trent South -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently LAB – Rob Flello)
Stroud -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON – Neil Carmichael)
Thurrock -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON – Jackie Doyle-Price)
Vale of Clywd -> NOW Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON – James Davies)
Walsall North -> BACK TO tossup from lean Con CON/LAB (currently LAB – David Winnick)
Warrington South -> BACK TO Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently CON – David Mowat)
Weaver Vale -> BACK TO Lean Con CON/LAB (currently CON – Graham Evans)
Westmorland and Lonsdale -> BACK to Lean LD CON/LD (currently LD – Tim Farron)
Wirral West -> BACK TO Lean Labour CON/LAB (currently LAB – Margaret Greenwood)

New to the Toss Up List:
Norwich North NOW toss up CON/LAB (currently CON – Chloe Smith)
Broxtowe NOW toss up CON/LAB (currently CON – Anna Soubry)
St Ives NOW toss up CON/LD (currently CON – Derek Thomas)

Others that currently look like GAIN/LOSSES
Bedford -> LAB gain from CON (Richard Fueller)
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk -> CON gain from SNP (Calum Kerr)
Brighton Kemptown -> LAB gain from CON (Simon Kirby)
Bristol North West -> LAB gain from CON (Charlotte Leslie)
Bury North -> LAB gain from CON (David Nuttall)
Clacton -> CON gain from UKIP (No Incumbent)
Croydon Central -> LAB gain from CON (Gavin Barwell)
Dumfries and Galloway -> CON gain from SNP (Richard Arkless)
East Renfrewshire -> CON gain from SNP (Kirsten Oswald)
Kingston and Surbiton -> LD gain from CON (James Berry)
Leeds North West -> LAB gain from LD (Greg Mulholland)
Plymouth Sutton and Devonport -> LAB gain from CON (Johnny Mercer)
Southport -> CON gain from LD (No Incumbent)
Twickenham -> LD gain from CON (Tania Mathias)
West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine -> CON gain from SNP (Stuart Donaldson)
Cheltenham -> LD gain from CON (Alex Chalk)

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officerhinrika · 03/06/2017 15:08

I can't help thinking that the "snap" element of this election has actually helped Labour. Because of the lack of time all sitting MPs were automatic candidates, avoiding any unedifying deselection battles and other internal punch ups. Instead there's been a real engagement across the whole party ( and I voted for Owen Smith).

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 15:09

I've been a canvasser and pounded pavements

As have I for many years until my health deteriorated.

woman12345 · 03/06/2017 15:10

Wow! Thanks red and Bigchoc for all the stats. Well done to all the canvassers for all the non tory parties.
but people do have beliefs and values and think public engagement is important absolutely.

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 15:12

If Labour doesn't want to be in government then it shouldn't be a parliamentary party. It's the whole point.

No that is not the point of a parliamentary democracy. The point of a parliamentary democracy is to have representatives of all sorts of people in a place where their voices can be heard.
This is the looser mentality introduced in Labour by Blair et al in my generation's time. It is so poisonous. And I truly believe everyone should be given. A chance so long as they have worked for their party. I think Labour is going to see another surge in membership and Tories will effectively be wiped off if Corbyn stays and manages to get in next election, get the voting age lowered, even without getting a proper turnout from that age group.
And I hardly see anyone in Tory ranks right now who isn't a bigger arse than May herself.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 15:15

I think Labour is going to see another surge in membership and Tories will effectively be wiped off if Corbyn stays and manages to get in next election

There are boundary changes to come which will dramatically effect the Labour seats for the worse. After this election it will be incredibly hard for Labour to win outright

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 15:15

Posted too soon.
There are at least two others I think who can replace Corbyn while continuing his policies. He has ruled out LibDem last night which is a pity though I feel good that the LibDem got such a beating as it serves them right for strengthening the likes of Cameron etc.
No idea whether Lucas will accept it. We really need a progressive alliance in this country because I am soooo jealous of France and Canada and Germany and want to show off to my friends there.

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 15:16

I need to read about them yet. Don't know what will that mean.

prettybird · 03/06/2017 15:21

If only UKIP had had Piglet's attitude: that they should have given up because they hadn't won enough seats to form a government Confusedif only Wink

I think he/she illustrates everything that is wrong with our parliamentary two party "democracy". Such an attitude would imply that once a (majority) party has been voted in and a government formed, the losers should fall on their swords and they might as well all go home as there is nothing for them to do in opposition Hmm It would certainly save a lot of money! Wink

As an example of why this shouldn't happen: I first came across Nicola Sturgeon when she door stepped us in 1997. Had no intention of voting for the SNP at the time but she was very persuasive (stood discussing with dh for over half an hour) and she ran Sarwar (Labour) a very close 2nd in what had previously been a safe Labour seat. With boundary changes it went back to being very safe Labour, yet 18 years later, a safe Labour seat (c12,000 majority) is turned into a safe SNP majority (c12,000 majority) with a swing of over 30% Shock

So much for a party (or leader) giving up because they hadn't won Grin

twofingerstoEverything · 03/06/2017 15:22

Charmageddon: He actually believes that ordinary people whoop, cheer & faint at the sight of him - rather than it just being a group of bussed in momentum groupies.

Why do people keep coming out with this drivel? I went to hear Corbyn speak, along with around 1000 other people - despite only having about 4 days notice that he was coming to town. I didn't faint Hmm, but I certainly cheered, mainly because it was so refreshing to have someone who appeared to be direct and honest and who was genuinely concerned about Education, the NHS, transport etc. His stance on Brexit has thoroughly pissed me off - although he seems to be saying some slightly different things recently - so I'm certainly not a groupie and definitely not a member of Momentum. The fact that he's inspiring so many young people is brilliant, but you carry on with the 'Momentum groupies' tosh. I'll just chuck tht particular 'insight' on the garbage pile, along with 'magic money tree' and 'strong and stable'.

citroenpresse · 03/06/2017 15:22

Has the boundary thing been passed? Was that the private member's bill? Cameron tried this (seen off by the LibDems in the coalition) and now May, but I thought it was still part of their manifesto?

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 15:23

UKIP didn't see itself as losers in parliamentary elections. Instead it sort to influence policy even though it didn't have seats. Yes they did have MEPs too, but that only explains part of it. The LDs also very much take this approach. This is why vote share DOES matter as well as seats. Seats are obviously more important but the dynamic of a parliamentary democracy does not end with it - provide a range a voices are able to be voiced and one party does not have too much of a majority so they are able to ignore outside influence.

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twofingerstoEverything · 03/06/2017 15:23

Good post, prettybird. Totally agree. The idea that people should 'give up' if they don't win is nonsense.

citroenpresse · 03/06/2017 15:24

YouGov latest - Tories would lose 22 seats? Oh, really daren't hope. Been this way before.

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 15:26

Has the boundary thing been passed? Was that the private member's bill? Cameron tried this (seen off by the LibDems in the coalition) and now May, but I thought it was still part of their manifesto?

Nope passed no. Still in the manifesto. Which could mean they decide to press on with it, or they decide to U-turn on it.

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Bolshybookworm · 03/06/2017 15:28

Sad to see Leeds north west on that list (potential lib dem to labour). Greg Mulholland is a decent, well liked MP. I have noticed that labour are waging a minor placard war in the area (lib dems fighting back) but I wish the Labour Party would pour their energies into local, marginal Tory areas tbh.

It seems to be full on election war in Davies constituency! We've been deluged with leaflets, PD has been pounding the local streets with his minions, we've had masses of hustings, hustings with cake, C4 news visiting and that awful WEP woman popping up in the village pub. I'll be exhausted by the end of this!

At least it appears to be mobilising the youth vote- lots of young people have registered to vote here, apparently.

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 15:28

YouGov latest - Tories would lose 22 seats? Oh, really daren't hope. Been this way before.^

Don't hope. You'll be disappointed. No one serious - apart from YouGov - thinks it will be reality. I'm still on 80 seat Majority for Tories.

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BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 15:31

As have I for many years until my health deteriorated.

Presumably you wouldn't have bothered of you weren't convinced your party would win.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 15:32

You'll be disappointed. No one serious - apart from YouGov

Even they don't. The company founder himself thinks that will be a 49-50 seat majority.

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