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Brexit

Westministenders: Election Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:50

Tick tock, tick tock goes the Brexit Clock.

Don’t panic, just don’t turn up to debates because you have talks starting on the 19th June and have to perfect the 100 page document relating to at least 750 international agreements that need renegotiating before then. Anyone who turns up for their job interview for that, is just wasting time.

If only someone hadn’t called a distracting election.

This election was dubbed to be about Brexit. Yet it is remarkable that we have barely had debate over it. No one wants to admit it really. We nearly got a consensus between Barry Gardiner, Nick Clegg and David Davis over it being a political not economic decision on Question Time on Thursday 1st June, but we are not quite there yet with the admission that the economy is toast. This means the addition money the Conservatives have promised for the NHS won’t be available but we can’t have this discussion. Its properly the fault of purdah. Instead the subject rapidly got skipped over. Instead Davis said that the target May had just set for immigration to be at tens of thousands by 2022 was unrealistic.

In post-election rumour has it that Davis is about to get a promotion to the FCO, whilst Johnson gets the boot. On the other hand Gove is also rumoured for NI and May loyal Gummer gets Brexit.

Meanwhile the 1922 Committee of Tory Backbenchers are said to be plotting the downfall of at least one of May’s guard dogs, Nick Timothy following the decision about the Dementia Tax and subsequent U-Turn. Farage also mentioned Timothy in his statement over the breaking news that the CPS are pressing charges on the Conservative Candidate for South Thanet (the former MP there), his agent and a Tory Party official over election expenses. It seems almost inconceivable that Timothy can survive a traditional Tory Knifing.

This is all as May’s leadership approval ratings are in freefall as the honeymoon is firmly ends, after the public finally got to see her create an army of strawmen as answers, in a barely concealed contempt for the public’s concerns. May’s reaction to a negative reaction? Go back into hiding from media accountability and get the Mail to do her dirty work.

Elsewhere the EU have lined up to criticise Trump over his hard ball attempt to renegotiate the Paris Climate Deal. May was noticeable by her absence as she’s trying the same trick over Brexit and is desperate to keep Trump onside. What is Trump offering us in return? Apart from a Brexit Opportunity to get stiffed.

As for the polls? Despite them, it’s difficult to see the Tories not making a net seat gain. For Labour to do well it relies on widespread tactical voting, young who haven’t previously voted turning out in levels not seen since the 1970s and this being spread across the country and not concentrated in University areas. This will be tough to achieve to simply stop a Tory Landslide, never mind a hung parliament. Labour winning a majority is the stuff of pure fantasy (needs Lab to be 12points ahead of Cons). That said, if the result isn’t much different to the 2015 result, it will beg major questions over May’s leadership and her ability to read the public mood. It will say something about her refusal to engage with ‘the saboteurs’.

Expect an increased Tory Majority but not of the epic scale of 470 they originally were aiming for.

OP posts:
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16
SwedishEdith · 03/06/2017 00:13

Rephrase that: doesn't look like still in EU (but still are).

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 00:27

I think that Justine Roberts will get a response from May within a couple of days and I have a feeling that May is going to be too busy for us. 😂

HesterThrale · 03/06/2017 00:29

Thanks Red and all other posters - I can hardy keep up but it's fascinating reading!

Another demographic who will no longer vote Tory: middle aged women who had very little notice of massive changes to their pension entitlement age. (Waspi women).

inews.co.uk/opinion/tories-treatment-women-approaching-state-pension-age-will-cost-election/

573,000 people have signed the petition. That's a lot of voters.

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/state-pension-age-for-woman-to-be-reduced-from-66-to-60

And now they're crowdfunding to take the Govt to court in a legal challenge:

www.crowdpac.co.uk/campaigns/3033/pensions-legal-challenge-fund

Another irritation for TM.

squoosh · 03/06/2017 00:31

OK, now I'm officially old. smile Glad I made it this far!

I'm only just 40 and I feel old knowing the kids who were made scoff burgers for those photos are now part of the political establishment. The BSE crisis feels like it was about 8 years ago.

But now I've just remembered recent-ish horse meat scandal and am remembering it fondly. A simpler time.... 🐴

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 00:34

Newsnight's Emily Maitlus is giving a thrashing to BoJo? Is t that the woman who said there is still time for a coup in Labour?
What the fuck is going on the right wing side of this country? Do Tories really want to win this election or have they really been this incompetent always?
Mind boggles.

DeidreInaQuandry · 03/06/2017 00:36

Sod it, I'm going to placemark!

Cailleach1 · 03/06/2017 02:19

This is interesting. With all the condemnation of Corbyn meeting Sinn Féin. DUP'S Arlene Foster was one of the the people giving out about it. It seems it would have been ok if he had met with Loyalist paramilitaries instead.

"Recently Arlene Foster claimed that Jeremy Corbyn's meetings with Sinn Fein during the conflict raised questions about his democratic credentials."

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/uda-endorses-dups-pengelly-in-south-belfast-foster-feeling-the-heat-35780097.html

"Mrs Foster has also come in for criticism for meeting UDA boss Jackie McDonald within 48 hours of the murder in Bangor on Sunday of loyalist Colin Horner as part of a feud within the terrorist group.

Asked if she had told Mr McDonald paramilitary groups should not exist, the ex-First Minister said: "I had no need to say it to Jackie McDonald. Jackie McDonald knows my views very, very clearly."

And DUP's Emma Pengelly was on Daily Politics last year complaining about investigation into killings and collusion by British security forces who operated in NI. Her Father, Noel Little, was a Loyalist paramilitary member, I believe. He was caught in Paris wrt gunrunning. They have never decommissioned, either. Not to visit the sins of the father, of course. However, it seems a strange imprimatur in light of her vocal condemnation of Nationalist paramilitaries. And the DUP are so sanctimonious in Westminster.

Cailleach1 · 03/06/2017 02:48

The UDA, who are endorsing Emma Pengelly, were responsible for the murder of this Sinn Féin candidate, John Finucane's father. Pat Finucane. Allegedly with the collusion of the security forces. John Finucane is being trolled about the murder of his father. So Arlene was happy enough to meet with the UDA boss.

I understand realpolitik, if it brings about an end to the violence.
But why be hypocritically sanctimonious about others.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-feins-john-finucane-reports-threats-that-mock-and-support-his-fathers-murder-to-psni-35782561.html

Cailleach1 · 03/06/2017 02:48

The UDA, who are endorsing Emma Pengelly, were responsible for the murder of this Sinn Féin candidate, John Finucane's father. Pat Finucane. Allegedly with the collusion of the security forces. John Finucane is being trolled about the murder of his father. So Arlene was happy enough to meet with the UDA boss.

I understand realpolitik, if it brings about an end to the violence.
But why be hypocritically sanctimonious about others.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-feins-john-finucane-reports-threats-that-mock-and-support-his-fathers-murder-to-psni-35782561.html

Cailleach1 · 03/06/2017 02:48

The UDA, who are endorsing Emma Pengelly, were responsible for the murder of this Sinn Féin candidate, John Finucane's father. Pat Finucane. Allegedly with the collusion of the security forces. John Finucane is being trolled about the murder of his father. So Arlene was happy enough to meet with the UDA boss.

I understand realpolitik, if it brings about an end to the violence.
But why be hypocritically sanctimonious about others.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-feins-john-finucane-reports-threats-that-mock-and-support-his-fathers-murder-to-psni-35782561.html

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 05:44

(Daily Mash Grin ): Theresa May has cancelled next week’s general election after deciding it was not necessary after all.

The Conservative leader has recalled all ballot papers and suspended campaigning after realising her parliamentary majority of 17 was actually plenty.

May said: “This is not a U-turn.
There has been no change in the position I stated very clearly in early April.
I saw no need to hold a general election then, and I see no need to hold one now.

“I am very popular, Labour are further from government than they have ever been, everyone trusts me on Brexit and I would definitely win an election if I called one, so I won’t.

“Holding a general election now, after Article 50 has been triggered and when negotiations with the EU have begun, would be the reckless, irresponsible act of a foolish gambler.”

She added: “Now I can looking forward to a chilled weekend binge-watching Songs of Praise.”

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 05:45

Frankie Boyle @frankieboyle
All the average British punter wants is to be paid less than £10 an hour and be incinerated in a nuclear holocaust, and good luck to em

mathanxiety · 03/06/2017 06:53

Placemarking. Thanks, Red.

Plonkysaurus · 03/06/2017 07:09

Binge watching songs of praise Grin

I struggled to pay much attention to Question Time last night. I think I've hit peak politics, and so far I've been very keen to know as much as possible during this campaign. I'd imagine many people have also hit their wall.

I thought the disabled guy and the woman with mental health problems posed very good questions last night. May's proposed grammar schools seemed to go down like a bucket of cold sick, and I can't believe she's pressing on with the idea of bloody expensive free schools.

JC's main stumbling blocks seemed to be trident and tax. Personally I like the idea of someone being hesitant to press the red button but appaz we should be less careful to win the angry white man vote. I love that JC isn't courting this part of the electorate. Shame they're May's bread and butter.

Plonkysaurus · 03/06/2017 07:18

I also wish that JC would point out the number of progressive countries that we like to compare ourselves to who don't have nukes. Germany, Canada, Australia... And whole continents. Ugh. I hate trident.

BestIsWest · 03/06/2017 07:19

Agreed Plonky

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 07:30

The UK having Trident is like a pathetic little bloke sticking a very large sausage down his trousers.

LurkingHusband · 03/06/2017 07:33

.

HesterThrale · 03/06/2017 08:01

There was a definite difference between what older and younger people were asking the leaders (with one young male exception).

I could hear the DM talking out of the mouths of some of those old men (and it did seem to be men.) All fear and suspicion and aggression. (Of course I know that's a generalisation and many are forward-thinking.)

I felt hope for Britain when I heard those younger folk.

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 08:16

Lovely new thread. I had a small panic this morning when I went to the old one and it had ended with no link. Phew, am I glad I found you all Grin

I agree that I am not sure labour winning would actually be the best result for them in the long term. I keep hearing people saying that "you don't get anything for second place" as if UKIP never happened. If they proved anything it is that if you can change the narrative and play your cards well you can have a huge influence on the direction of the country without even getting anywhere near power. They succeeded in moving the window further and further to the right and though there were conservatives who were angling for a brexit vote UKIP gave them the lever needed to pressure for the referendum. They certainly helped the voters feel empowered to vote for it. UKIP made brexit happen and if that isn't changing the country without being in power I don't know what it.

Peregrina · 03/06/2017 08:34

Yes, UKIP's 'second' place was the best sort of result for them. Got the main parties running scared, but hardly got anyone into Office, so not held to account. When they did get into Office in local elections, they mostly proved themselves totally incompetent and prone to both in-fighting and physical punch ups. Having said that, I believe that one or two of their local councillors did a decent enough job.

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 08:38

The radio is full of Fallon now promising that the Tories will definitely not put up income tax for anyone. Though their manifesto did not really say anything on tax rises the silence was deafening and so unusual for the Tories that most commentators took at as a sign that they would be likely to raise taxes in some form. For that reason I see this from Fallon as at least a partial U-turn.

It is also a notable return to their standard lines for the Tories. In the past they have always attacked labour as the party that would put up taxes and the conservatives as the party that would not. Their manifesto this time ment they could not do this in this election and instead had to find new ground to fight labour on or rely on Corbyn being hated. This statement from Fallon shows just how much they have failed on both these scores. They are scared and running back to their comfort zone. I think it might be too late though and many people will see it for what it is.

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 08:49

These tweets from Nick Robinson about Ed Milliband's support for Corbyn's manifesto and the importance of that are worth noting in regard to the discussion about labour losing the election. It should be remembered that this election was as much about the future of the labour party as the future PM. If Corbyn losses the election, but wins the party that will still be a huge deal for him and those on the left. It may very well turn out that this snap election will be the best possible thing that could have happened for Corbyn and the worst possible thing for May. Not quite the result the conservatives were hoping for.

Westministenders: Election Mayhem
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 08:53

If Corbyn losses the election

Then he should go.

The whole point is to win elections not be in permanent opposition.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 08:57

That's the decision of the members, not of Tory supporters who want rid of him

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