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Brexit

Westministenders: Election Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:50

Tick tock, tick tock goes the Brexit Clock.

Don’t panic, just don’t turn up to debates because you have talks starting on the 19th June and have to perfect the 100 page document relating to at least 750 international agreements that need renegotiating before then. Anyone who turns up for their job interview for that, is just wasting time.

If only someone hadn’t called a distracting election.

This election was dubbed to be about Brexit. Yet it is remarkable that we have barely had debate over it. No one wants to admit it really. We nearly got a consensus between Barry Gardiner, Nick Clegg and David Davis over it being a political not economic decision on Question Time on Thursday 1st June, but we are not quite there yet with the admission that the economy is toast. This means the addition money the Conservatives have promised for the NHS won’t be available but we can’t have this discussion. Its properly the fault of purdah. Instead the subject rapidly got skipped over. Instead Davis said that the target May had just set for immigration to be at tens of thousands by 2022 was unrealistic.

In post-election rumour has it that Davis is about to get a promotion to the FCO, whilst Johnson gets the boot. On the other hand Gove is also rumoured for NI and May loyal Gummer gets Brexit.

Meanwhile the 1922 Committee of Tory Backbenchers are said to be plotting the downfall of at least one of May’s guard dogs, Nick Timothy following the decision about the Dementia Tax and subsequent U-Turn. Farage also mentioned Timothy in his statement over the breaking news that the CPS are pressing charges on the Conservative Candidate for South Thanet (the former MP there), his agent and a Tory Party official over election expenses. It seems almost inconceivable that Timothy can survive a traditional Tory Knifing.

This is all as May’s leadership approval ratings are in freefall as the honeymoon is firmly ends, after the public finally got to see her create an army of strawmen as answers, in a barely concealed contempt for the public’s concerns. May’s reaction to a negative reaction? Go back into hiding from media accountability and get the Mail to do her dirty work.

Elsewhere the EU have lined up to criticise Trump over his hard ball attempt to renegotiate the Paris Climate Deal. May was noticeable by her absence as she’s trying the same trick over Brexit and is desperate to keep Trump onside. What is Trump offering us in return? Apart from a Brexit Opportunity to get stiffed.

As for the polls? Despite them, it’s difficult to see the Tories not making a net seat gain. For Labour to do well it relies on widespread tactical voting, young who haven’t previously voted turning out in levels not seen since the 1970s and this being spread across the country and not concentrated in University areas. This will be tough to achieve to simply stop a Tory Landslide, never mind a hung parliament. Labour winning a majority is the stuff of pure fantasy (needs Lab to be 12points ahead of Cons). That said, if the result isn’t much different to the 2015 result, it will beg major questions over May’s leadership and her ability to read the public mood. It will say something about her refusal to engage with ‘the saboteurs’.

Expect an increased Tory Majority but not of the epic scale of 470 they originally were aiming for.

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Thread gallery
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woman12345 · 06/06/2017 10:23

TM was isolated in a warehouse? ElenaGreco

But a Huffpost article on successful media management in elections ended with the point that a silent election campaign can win it. Think that's just what's happened with Crosby's campaign.

RedToothBrush · 06/06/2017 10:24

order-order.com/2017/06/06/hammond-loses-another-spad/
Hammond loses another Spad.

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Bearbehind · 06/06/2017 10:30

I don't like Boris Johnsons style but I don't agree he incompetent; quite the opposite actually.

There's no way he'd end up in the situation Abbott got into last night.

If he didn't have the answers he would have at least come out of it looking like he knew what he was talking about even it were just bravado.

Abbott literally didn't have a clue what she was talking about.

RedToothBrush · 06/06/2017 10:33

Simon Cox‏*@SimonFRCox*
I'm concerned about Qatar - for world peace & migrants... v quick thread 1/
Qatar has been a relatively sensible, calm voice against rising rhetoric & animosity in Gulf. 2/
Saud blockade of Qatar is unprecedented & comes on top of Saud trying out as a regional power (Syria, Yemen) - that isn't going well. 3/
Saud doesn't have calm counsel of Obama regime, but only ignorant, ideologue/profiteers of Trumpistan. 4/
From here, it looks like Iran and Qatar are the coolest heads in the region (Jordan too, but they depend on US $ so who knows...) 5/
What about people of Qatar? 90% of pop... YES - NINETY PER CENT are migrant workers 6/
Qatar imports all its food. Qataris can leave easily. Workers need permission to leave. If food supplies to worker camps get broken... 7/
... would Qatar air-lift workers home? Or would that not be politically OK / logistically poss. There are TWO MILLION MIGRANTS in Qatar. 8/
Let's hope none of this comes to pass. Saud should drop blockade. Qatar has right to its own foreign policy. 9/
But more important than Qatar's sovereignty is its duty to protect lives of each person in Qatar. Especially least powerful - migrants 10/10

I've also seen very little comment about how many Qatar has invested in the UK. (Clue: Its a lot. They own The Shard and 10% of BA for starters). What happens to Qatar is very important to UK.

David Allen Green‏*@davidallengreen*

  1. Some thoughts about why Theresa May is ill-suited to be a Brexit prime minister.
  2. These thoughts are not party-political. Politicians from all parties can be good and bad at certain things.
  3. And Tories do not have a monopoly on illiberalism. "Former Labour Home Secretary" is one the most illiberal phrases in British politics.
  4. Let's start with what May is good at: command-and-control policy. Well suited in many ways to the Home Office and why she did ok there.
  5. Example: Snoopers Charter. Her first attempt to force this through was a fiasco. So she and her Home Office team went away and planned.
  6. Home Office then successfully (from their pov) forced through the DRIP Act and then Investigatory Powers Act. Lessons had been learned.
  7. They had a simple target - get those laws on the statute book. They then worked out a direct if staged way to get them there.
  8. Another example: UK's Justice and Home Affairs opt-ins and opt-outs from EU policy.
Again simple and direct decisions for May to make.
  1. No UK minister has an easier job dealing with the EU than the Home Secretary - just pick-and-choose which policies to opt in and out of.
10. May's experience with discrete EU Justice and Home Affairs opt ins and outs no doubt explains why she thinks Brexit is an easy task. 11. On simple and direct tasks, there is no better minister than someone like May. A perfect officer to lead any cavalry charge. 12. Now take a counter example: the CSA inquiry. This could not be solved by charging at a target, with an appointment and a press release. 13. The CSA inquiry is complex, not simple. It needed to be thought-though and various contingencies and risks addressed. 14. But the CSA inquiry was botched. Set up in 2014. Background here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Inquiry_into_Child_Sexual_Abuse 15. Because of bad planning and unsuitable lead appointments, years have passed, nothing achieved. Sounds familiar? Like CSA, like Brexit. 16. Or take Abu Qatada case. What was needed was an agreement with Jordan re torture-based evidence. See my thread (posted above on MN) 17. But instead: May put her head down and charged. Piling up lost court cases, threatening to withdraw UK from ECHR. Shouting ever louder. 17. In the Qatada, she fought court cases to appeal courts rather than getting on with the job. Sound familiar? The Miller A50 litigation? 18. Now lets look at Brexit. May's approach is not a surprise to anyone who watched her at the Home Office. 19. Whitehall needs to prepare for Brexit from standing start - no time to waste, EU already preparing. So what does May do? 20. May creates two new Whitehall departments. Disruption, disorganisation, turf-wars. No proper preparation possible. 21. May goes for simple solution to the complex problem. Ditto: announcing the "Great Repeal Bill" - nine months later, still no draft. 22. The Article 50 notification: made because it was something she could do by a specified date, and so she did, to show she could. 23. Announcing the end of ECJ role and free movement, because she could. Realising months later this meant no Single Market/EEA option. 24. No complex task is thought-through. Just loud, headline-grabbing charges at easy objectives. CSA, Qatada, Brexit - see the pattern? 25. This is not an anti-Tory point. Some Tories have been excellent with complex policy, even if you dislike them. 26. No doubt May is a good political cavalry officer, the one to lead a charge. But Brexit requires wise generalship. Strategy not tactics. 27. And so if May wins on Thursday,Tories would would be sensible to replace her a soon as possible, if Brexit is to have any chance. Ends.
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RedToothBrush · 06/06/2017 10:37

twitter.com/JamesReedYP/status/872017346600333313
Thread still being completed by Yorkshire Post's political editor re: seats in Yorkshire and where the Tories are targeting and what hopes Labour have.

I'm going out very shortly. Won't be back until late afternoon. Don't talk too much or just start the next thread without me if you need to.

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TheElementsSong · 06/06/2017 10:43

I agree with that DAG thread, RTB.

citroenpresse · 06/06/2017 10:44

Bear Johnson thought the 350 million a week to the NHS Leave campaign promise was in the 2017 Tory Manifesto!

www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/may/21/boris-johnson-mistake-350m-nhs-promise-tory-manifesto-video

LurkingHusband · 06/06/2017 10:44

One thing occurred to me the other day ...

Generally there is dismay at the low %age of 18-25 year olds that vote.

Yet at the same time, we are told the greatest %age of voters are the older (50+)

And it has been this way since time immemorial. The exact number may change, but the overall theme remains (?)

So, by deduction, at some point, people who have not voted must start voting. Note the tenses ... non voters must become voters - and stay voters for the statistics to work.

Why ? What is it that happens to someone - say aged 40 - who has never voted, that they wake up one day, and say "you know what, I've always wondered what the inside of my local primary school looks like - today I'll find out.".

I wonder what the chances are that someone who has voted in the last election will vote in the next election, compared to someone who didn't vote.

It's very easy to get lost in numbers ...

Badders123 · 06/06/2017 10:45

Oh fuck me
Not Gove!!...

Bearbehind · 06/06/2017 10:50

citreon, I'm not one to defend BJ but he was clearly going to go on to repeat some soundbite of May's about taking back control blah blah blah but Peston talked all over him.

ElenaGreco123 · 06/06/2017 10:51

woman Isolated, probably not the right word. Isolated from free-talking ordinary people. Sorry.

Badders123 · 06/06/2017 10:51

...and I agree with pp
Diane Abbott is a liability

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 06/06/2017 10:53

James Reed thread is very similar to the things canversers are saying aroundd here to tbh.

Peregrina · 06/06/2017 10:56

9. No UK minister has an easier job dealing with the EU than the Home Secretary - just pick-and-choose which policies to opt in and out of.

I think this is what she is banking on with Euratom. Which is not an EU body in the first place, so it was a mystery why it was dragged into the A50 notification. I imagine that she hopes she will be able to opt back in, no doubt with great fanfare about concessions received. With the information that this was a stupid blunder hidden somewhere in the small print.

RedToothBrush · 06/06/2017 11:00

Johnson very very rarely talks policy. Figures even less so.

The thing is he's so good with media, you don't notice the limited substance he gets out for airtime.

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taytopotato · 06/06/2017 11:00

Good point LH,

The 18-25s as they get older will be faced by high rental prices, unable to buy property (unless they get financial help from mum and dad), starting to pay their student debts, have children who will most probably go to the state sector

but at the same time engaged in social media.

Charmageddon · 06/06/2017 11:02

m.youtube.com/watch?v=SmCSBd70rWw

citroenpresse · 06/06/2017 11:04

Bear I think the expectation that politicians are able to memorise every single fact of their policy and its costings is unreasonable but considering he was a key figure in the leave campaign, and a cabinet minister, you'd think he was a teeny bit more informed about the manifesto. Piglet UKIP voters are likely to switch to Tories. Labour is all about seat retention. Not exactly earth shattering news. It would be a miracle if Labour managed to snaffle just a few seats. More Tories is still an utter disaster and if May tries to suggest an 80 seat majority is any kind of mandate, she will be ridiculed in Europe.

Cherrypi · 06/06/2017 11:11

Maybe Ed Miliband could be Home Secretary if (a very big if) Labour win?

Bearbehind · 06/06/2017 11:12

citreon, that was a 30 second clip from an interview. Surely you don't believe he was actually going to say, 'yes, the £350m is on page 3 of the manefesto' do you?

He was going to regurgitate some sound bite about us having the ability to use money where we saw fit now we've taken back control but Peston didn't give him chance to answer and changed the subject.

Have you watched DA's interview on Sky last night?

How can you begin to defend her if you have?

Peregrina · 06/06/2017 11:17

'yes, the £350m is on page 3 of the manefesto' do you?

Why not, since it was a major plank of the Leave campaign, which May is now championing with the zeal of the convert?

citroenpresse · 06/06/2017 11:25

I'm more interested in reading the manifestos and understanding the underlying intentions of policy than I am watching politicians perform in election time. I think it's blindingly obvious that DA wouldn't be Home Secretary for real or will even stay Shadow Home Secretary for much longer so it's kind of irrelevant to me how she does or doesn't perform. The personal abuse she has had is hateful. Those who think that it is important to vote on the personalities who will be actually leading the country should consider that the Tory Brexit team is almost certainly going to change. Ditto their own front bench.

Bearbehind · 06/06/2017 11:29

peregrina, I know you know BJ isn't that stupid.

It's pretty dangerous ground when people make assumptions based on extract of an interview where the interviewer does not allow the interviewer to answer.

Yes he did say 'it is' but he was clearly going on to say something about 'take back control'

'It is' wasn't the full extent of his answer.

Have you watched the DA Sky interview?

Bearbehind · 06/06/2017 11:32

citreon so you haven't watched the interview we are discussing yet feel the need to refer me to a 30 second clip of another interview to prove a point [hmn]

Peregrina · 06/06/2017 11:34

Have you watched the DA Sky interview?

No. I don't have Sky and have no intention of getting it. Hence little comment on DA - except to say that women and blacks do have to be better to succeed in life. Which is still true even after years of equalities legislation.

Was BoJo going to say anything of substance do you think?

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