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Brexit

Westministenders: Election Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:50

Tick tock, tick tock goes the Brexit Clock.

Don’t panic, just don’t turn up to debates because you have talks starting on the 19th June and have to perfect the 100 page document relating to at least 750 international agreements that need renegotiating before then. Anyone who turns up for their job interview for that, is just wasting time.

If only someone hadn’t called a distracting election.

This election was dubbed to be about Brexit. Yet it is remarkable that we have barely had debate over it. No one wants to admit it really. We nearly got a consensus between Barry Gardiner, Nick Clegg and David Davis over it being a political not economic decision on Question Time on Thursday 1st June, but we are not quite there yet with the admission that the economy is toast. This means the addition money the Conservatives have promised for the NHS won’t be available but we can’t have this discussion. Its properly the fault of purdah. Instead the subject rapidly got skipped over. Instead Davis said that the target May had just set for immigration to be at tens of thousands by 2022 was unrealistic.

In post-election rumour has it that Davis is about to get a promotion to the FCO, whilst Johnson gets the boot. On the other hand Gove is also rumoured for NI and May loyal Gummer gets Brexit.

Meanwhile the 1922 Committee of Tory Backbenchers are said to be plotting the downfall of at least one of May’s guard dogs, Nick Timothy following the decision about the Dementia Tax and subsequent U-Turn. Farage also mentioned Timothy in his statement over the breaking news that the CPS are pressing charges on the Conservative Candidate for South Thanet (the former MP there), his agent and a Tory Party official over election expenses. It seems almost inconceivable that Timothy can survive a traditional Tory Knifing.

This is all as May’s leadership approval ratings are in freefall as the honeymoon is firmly ends, after the public finally got to see her create an army of strawmen as answers, in a barely concealed contempt for the public’s concerns. May’s reaction to a negative reaction? Go back into hiding from media accountability and get the Mail to do her dirty work.

Elsewhere the EU have lined up to criticise Trump over his hard ball attempt to renegotiate the Paris Climate Deal. May was noticeable by her absence as she’s trying the same trick over Brexit and is desperate to keep Trump onside. What is Trump offering us in return? Apart from a Brexit Opportunity to get stiffed.

As for the polls? Despite them, it’s difficult to see the Tories not making a net seat gain. For Labour to do well it relies on widespread tactical voting, young who haven’t previously voted turning out in levels not seen since the 1970s and this being spread across the country and not concentrated in University areas. This will be tough to achieve to simply stop a Tory Landslide, never mind a hung parliament. Labour winning a majority is the stuff of pure fantasy (needs Lab to be 12points ahead of Cons). That said, if the result isn’t much different to the 2015 result, it will beg major questions over May’s leadership and her ability to read the public mood. It will say something about her refusal to engage with ‘the saboteurs’.

Expect an increased Tory Majority but not of the epic scale of 470 they originally were aiming for.

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Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 04/06/2017 23:21

www.independent.co.uk/voices/london-terror-attack-bridge-borough-latest-firearms-officer-government-wrong-police-cuts-theresa-may-a7772506.html
I'm a serving firearms officer and the Government is wrong to claim police cuts have nothing to do with recent attacks

Despite her denials, Theresa May’s cuts to police numbers have made attacks like London and Manchester much more likely

May was warned that her cuts would force paramilitary style policing in Britain yet she ignored this. The army is now deployed on our streets. More than 1,300 skilled firearms officers have been cut, recruitment of those officers is slow and our national security is at risk

Compare with:

Westminster Hour @WestminHour 48mins ago
1500 more armed police being recruited says @JBrokenshire

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woman12345 · 04/06/2017 23:26

(from that article): it's difficult to recruit armed officers:

Officers know the risks of carrying a weapon. They know they will have little or no support from the Government if they are forced to fire their weapon and will face months if not years of investigations for trying to protect others. Would you join a job like this?

Charmageddon · 05/06/2017 00:13

This is the same for the armed forces too, though.
Fire your weapon and you are immediately under investigation.
You're essentially a criminal already in the eyes of the law.

The police & forces need to be held to rules of engagement & the highest scrutiny - how do you do that without proper investigations & a thorough review of the circumstances, though?

SwedishEdith · 05/06/2017 00:24

I read the Pilger post earlier. And, yes, it's interesting and he was/is a respected journalist. But I remember reading his website about a year ago and it seemed to have lots of pro-Putin references on it. So, I'm cautious about him. And in the interests of balance, I saw this Twitter thread earlier by Arieh Kovler (no, I didn't know who he was either).

Be suspicious of people who suddenly decide that Saudi Arabia is behind ISIS and all terror - which is the Russian/Iranian line.

Saudi supports extremism, as does Qatar and other gulf states. Iran supports Hezbollah and Assad, the biggest drivers of radicalisation.

Saudi Arabia is an oppressive theocracy and deeply problematic ally. But it's also under terror threat from Qaeda, ISIS etc.

Claiming that Saudi is the main driver of ISIS extremism is an indirect way of blaming ISIS on "the West" and its allies.

That's why Assad, Iran and Russia blame Saudi Arabia for ISIS. And it's why Trumpers and now Corbyn claim Saudi is behind Western terror.

We don't share values with Saudi Arabia. There are good reasons to oppose the West's alliance and reliance on the House of Saud.

But Saudi is one actor among many. Funding for UK extremist ideologies come from Pakistan, Qatar, other places too.

Also I have doubts about the impact of 'funding' for extremist ideologies. Ideologies don't need money to spread in the 21st Century.

When people who tolerated extremism and extremists for decades suddenly decide it's bad because they can blame Saudi Arabia, beware.

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2017 00:42

I agree Swedish but suppression of reports isn't a good look. Maybe the Saudis are an ally as a necessary evil but also dumping huge amounts of arms without any real thought, isn't necessarily going to help resolve things either. (Obama didn't do it for a reason. Trump did it without a second thought) May also has poor previous on suppression of reports. See immigration reports.

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SwedishEdith · 05/06/2017 00:49

No, not at all. Just don't want to get swept along in a one side is 100% good, other side 100% bad. Challenge is good and all that.

mathanxiety · 05/06/2017 03:58

Be suspicious of people who suddenly decide that Saudi Arabia is behind ISIS and all terror - which is the Russian/Iranian line.
Arieh Kovler is wrong about this.
Hezbollah and Assad are not actually the biggest drivers of radicalisation.
Also I have doubts about the impact of 'funding' for extremist ideologies. Ideologies don't need money to spread in the 21st Century
Pfft.

The link between Saudi Arabian Wahhabism and terror has been established for almost 2 decades. This is not a new theory, as illustrated by the efforts of the US to probe Saudi school textbooks (that are exported) dating from 9/11.

www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/saudi-connection-wahhabism-and-global-jihad

The successful anti-Soviet campaign in Afghanistan came to be seen as divine confirmation of jihad as necessary for Islam’s global ascendance. Wahhabism in turn emerged as the “indispensable ideology”—as noted in the record of the US Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security—not just for the Saudi state but also for groups such as al-Qaeda, which took up the mission to enforce a purified form of Islam upon the world. According to the Saudi monarchy’s official websites, Wahhabi charities and royal trusts, including that of another Saudi ruler, the late King Fahd, spent millions of dollars recruiting students to more than 1,500 mosques, 210 Muslim centers, 202 Islamic colleges, and 2,000 madrassas and on staffing those institutions with nearly 4,000 preachers and missionaries in non-Muslim nations in central, southern, and southeast Asia, as well as in Africa, Europe, and North America. Adherents to Wahhabism used Saudi control of four-fifths of all Islamic publishing houses around the world to spread their fighting words into faraway places...

...When US-led coalition forces moved into Afghanistan and Iraq, in 2001 and 2003 respectively, the conditions had already been laid for them to be battled to the death by local and foreign fighters committed to the Wahhabi ideology. When Western troops withdrew, the ideologues attacked recently installed governments with renewed “substantial and sustained” Saudi support, in the words of Richard Dearlove, former head of MI6, Britain’s foreign intelligence service.The goal seems to be that of ensuring Sunni groups loyal to Wahhabism and allied to Saudi Arabia will control both those nations as well as neighbors wracked by unrest like Pakistan and Syria. Consequently, such countries become training grounds for al-Qaeda–affiliated groups and the Islamic State. Thus, over the past three years, in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, and most recently Lebanon, the Saudi state has been able to utilize jihadis to launch a “proxy Sunni-Shia war” aimed specifically against Iran and its Shiite and Alawite allies, according to US Vice President Joe Biden. Saudi action was initially directed by Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the kingdom’s former ambassador to Washington and ex–intelligence chief, who had warned Dearlove, even prior to 9/11, that “the time is not far off, in the Middle East when it will be literally, ‘God help the Shia.’ More than a billion Sunnis have simply had enough of them.”

The full extent of resources that flowed from Saudi Arabia and its Gulf partners to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, and to the Syria-based al-Qaeda affiliate Nusra Front, is difficult to determine. But Biden estimated the illicit resource transfer to jihadis from Saudi Arabia at “hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of tons of weapons.” In addition to ideology and training, for instance, al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is reported to have provided $20,000 in cash directly to the Paris terrorists.

C0vfefe · 05/06/2017 04:15

@Valentine2 "Liar, liar" was written and used six years ago... so the writer is basically "lying, lying" by recyling it and attributing it to May.

C0vfefe · 05/06/2017 04:21

@mathanxiety The Saudi Wahhabi involvement exist in every Middle Eastern conflict, from the creation of the Palestinian "struggle" and onwards. The current conflicts (Iraq, Libya, Syria) are Saudi outsourced military action.

It's a 1,400 year old problem and has nothing to do with geopolitics but is tied in to the idea that a worldwide caliphate has to be established to "awaken" humanity back to the Wahhabi ideology.

mathanxiety · 05/06/2017 04:25

...And the US knew what they were dealing with when they armed and trained the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets after the invasion of 1979.

mathanxiety · 05/06/2017 05:13

At every juncture in modern times, geopolitical warriors thought they could harness the jihadis for their own ends.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/06/2017 05:18

Four Arab nations cut ties with Qatar
Gulf governments accuse neighbour of financing terror and undermining security

amp.ft.com/content/dc24473c-499e-11e7-a3f4-c742b9791d43

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/06/2017 05:23

İyad el-Baghdadi @iyad_elbaghdadi
UAE severs ties with Qatar, bars citizens from traveling to Qatar or passing through Qatar or staying in Qatar

Inter-Arab relations at their worst point in decades.

There are no adults among Arab leaders.

The GCC is dead.

I think this is an important moment that will leave a mark in future Arab history.

And speaking as an Arab citizen, the more they fight among each other, the more they expose each other.

They're also shutting down all crossings to/from Qatar, be it by land, sea, or airspace. That's even more severe than vs Iran.

This is what Arab leaders do when there's no adult in the room.

If there's a coup in Qatar in the coming days, nobody will be surprised.

Clash of the oil princes

You give a bunch of children a bunch of oil and no adult supervision and they start to fight among themselves

Saudi Arabia and the UAE feel like they have Trump in their pocket, so feel like they can do whatever they want

The Arab ancien regime is collapsing. It's been collapsing since 2011. It will continue collapsing.

The world is moving towards more integration and coalition building. The Arab world moving boldly in the opposite direction.

All you need to know: Dictators fight among each other. Democracies pursue peace and integration and collective security.

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2017 06:40

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/05/four-countries-cut-diplomatic-ties-qatar-gulf-rift-deepens/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Four countries cut diplomatic ties with Qatar as Gulf rift deepens

The crisis also comes after US President Donald Trump's recent visit to Saudi Arabia for a summit with Arab leaders. Since the meeting, unrest in the region has grown.

At that Saudi conference, Mr Trump met with Qatar's ruling emir Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani.

"We are friends, we've been friends now for a long time, haven't we?" Trump asked at the meeting. "Our relationship is extremely good."

Looks like Trump knew what he was doing and was in complete control of the situation...

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/06/2017 06:48

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/global-oil-prices-rise-sharply-on-rift-over-qatar-1496640271

Global Oil Prices Rise Sharply on Rift Over Qatar

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2017 06:51

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-trusted-counter-terrorism-policy
Theresa May can’t be trusted to get it right on counter-terrorism policy

The PM has a record of poor decisions and did the police a huge disservice when she prioritised ineffective mass surveillance over local intelligence-gathering

Tim Farron takes off the gloves to come back fighting. I presume national campaigning officially restarted at 6am when the embargo on this article was lifted. Not that it appears there was a break.

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RedToothBrush · 05/06/2017 07:10

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-terror-attack-suspect-thrown-out-of-mosque-barking-claim-voting-is-un-islamic-jabir-bin-zayd-a7772701.html
London terror attack: Suspect 'thrown out of mosque for claim that voting is un-Islamic'

'He seemed an uneducated person with no knowledge of religion'

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HashiAsLarry · 05/06/2017 07:21

I know a few of the Met and some consultants who work for them based in East London. They're overrun at the moment, there are stabbings happening weekly at best, acid attacks, etc. They're thin to the ground round there, it's easy to see how reports combined with lack of officers more dedicated to the communities mean these things haven't been high of priority lists. Sad

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/06/2017 07:43

Krishnan Guru-Murthy @krishgm
Former Tory Downing Street Director of Strategy says Theresa May should resign

steve hilton @SteveHiltonx
Theresa May responsible for security failures of London Bridge, Manchester, Westminster Bridge. Should be resigning not seeking re-election

Westministenders: Election Mayhem
whatwouldrondo · 05/06/2017 07:52

Hashi Yes I know people in the Met who work in the East and South East and their load is much greater than in the west, especially in terms of crime, gangs etc. I noted yesterday that the Police Officer in the video mentioned that Police were being drafted in to London Bridge from Hounslow and Kingston which makes sense but obviously leaves a void there.

BiglyBadgers · 05/06/2017 07:59

Karen Bradley is on Today and is collapsing horribly discussing the Tory terrorist response. It is almost embarrassing. She tried to blame reduction in numbers of armed officers on the labour Government 7 years ago Hmm

woman12345 · 05/06/2017 08:01

Can't say I agree with Pilger on everything, but here's a recent interview on what's been posted upthread:

@mflack66 15h15 hours ago
'What did the Prime Minister Know?' - John Pilger talks to @afshinrattansi on terror in Britain.

… via @youtube
Lazybastet · 05/06/2017 08:12

She also reiterated that the commissioner stated that they have enough resource but failed to mention that this was by cancelling leave, extending hours so exhausted feet on the ground.

Smoke screens.