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Brexit

Westministenders: Election Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:50

Tick tock, tick tock goes the Brexit Clock.

Don’t panic, just don’t turn up to debates because you have talks starting on the 19th June and have to perfect the 100 page document relating to at least 750 international agreements that need renegotiating before then. Anyone who turns up for their job interview for that, is just wasting time.

If only someone hadn’t called a distracting election.

This election was dubbed to be about Brexit. Yet it is remarkable that we have barely had debate over it. No one wants to admit it really. We nearly got a consensus between Barry Gardiner, Nick Clegg and David Davis over it being a political not economic decision on Question Time on Thursday 1st June, but we are not quite there yet with the admission that the economy is toast. This means the addition money the Conservatives have promised for the NHS won’t be available but we can’t have this discussion. Its properly the fault of purdah. Instead the subject rapidly got skipped over. Instead Davis said that the target May had just set for immigration to be at tens of thousands by 2022 was unrealistic.

In post-election rumour has it that Davis is about to get a promotion to the FCO, whilst Johnson gets the boot. On the other hand Gove is also rumoured for NI and May loyal Gummer gets Brexit.

Meanwhile the 1922 Committee of Tory Backbenchers are said to be plotting the downfall of at least one of May’s guard dogs, Nick Timothy following the decision about the Dementia Tax and subsequent U-Turn. Farage also mentioned Timothy in his statement over the breaking news that the CPS are pressing charges on the Conservative Candidate for South Thanet (the former MP there), his agent and a Tory Party official over election expenses. It seems almost inconceivable that Timothy can survive a traditional Tory Knifing.

This is all as May’s leadership approval ratings are in freefall as the honeymoon is firmly ends, after the public finally got to see her create an army of strawmen as answers, in a barely concealed contempt for the public’s concerns. May’s reaction to a negative reaction? Go back into hiding from media accountability and get the Mail to do her dirty work.

Elsewhere the EU have lined up to criticise Trump over his hard ball attempt to renegotiate the Paris Climate Deal. May was noticeable by her absence as she’s trying the same trick over Brexit and is desperate to keep Trump onside. What is Trump offering us in return? Apart from a Brexit Opportunity to get stiffed.

As for the polls? Despite them, it’s difficult to see the Tories not making a net seat gain. For Labour to do well it relies on widespread tactical voting, young who haven’t previously voted turning out in levels not seen since the 1970s and this being spread across the country and not concentrated in University areas. This will be tough to achieve to simply stop a Tory Landslide, never mind a hung parliament. Labour winning a majority is the stuff of pure fantasy (needs Lab to be 12points ahead of Cons). That said, if the result isn’t much different to the 2015 result, it will beg major questions over May’s leadership and her ability to read the public mood. It will say something about her refusal to engage with ‘the saboteurs’.

Expect an increased Tory Majority but not of the epic scale of 470 they originally were aiming for.

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RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 16:50

Loving the optimistic Yougov proj
Con 265
Lab 301
SNP 26
LibDem 3-18

Works for me.

I think this might be in the same league as Brexit will make us all better off and the NHS will get £350million off the Tories.

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howabout · 03/06/2017 16:55

Footnote: the SNP numbers on YouGov are now in line with my best guess from last thread following on from Survation poll. New Scottish Survation poll due this evening.

Resisting the temptation to defend Tommy Sheridan on Scotsnet. We sometimes play in the park together with our DC and despite his views on Indy I like him.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 16:58

Even the Times (paywall) is baffled

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/can-we-all-just-admit-that-we-don-t-have-a-clue-what-s-going-on-0xjw3jndp

"My favourite survey this week came from ComRes, which asked people if they had made up their minds who to vote for:

70 per cent had, 21 per cent hadn’t, and 9 per cent replied “don’t know”.

They couldn’t make up their minds about whether they’d made up their minds. Grin
I applaud these people.

If there is anything we should have learnt from politics by now, it’s the need to just say:
we don’t know.
No idea.
Haven’t a Scooby-Doo.
Staggering around in the dark.
In a permanent state of discombobulation."

"You were told (probably by me) that Jeremy Corbyn was a useless pudding, and the wise brains in the “moderate” wing of the Labour Party had hatched a clever plan to sit back and let him fail on his own terms.

Yet it turns out a man who has spent his life campaigning for lost causes has inadvertently proved that Labour can win, or at least give it a good go, with a traditional, hard-left agenda."

"You were told that the Lib Dems would harness the power of the 48 per cent to seize back dozens of seats.
Instead they have barely pursued a 4.8 per cent strategy, with a campaign best remembered for gay sex, cannabis and smelling spaniels
— and we’ve all had nights out like that." Wink

"You were told that Ukip posed an existential threat to Labour.
Instead Paul Nuttall poses only a threat to himself"

"Most importantly you were told that Theresa May was destined to secure a landslide ....
How could we know she would turn out to be fallible? And hapless, indecisive, brittle, inflexible, obstructive, unimaginative and elusive?
Well, modesty forbids me from pointing out that I did try to tell you four weeks ago on these very pages, before people saying she is a bit rubbish became as ubiquitous as fidget spinners and Pippa Middleton.

Now, instead of debating the size of her majority, we wonder whether she will survive until Christmas."

"This is an election that nobody wanted, in which the leading protagonists have failed to live up to even modest expectations of consistency, honesty and competence.

If only the ballot paper also had a box marked “don’t know”.

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 16:58

However, after this GE, first the party needs to agree Labour should be a clear left alternative
But Corbyn then needs to hand over to a younger dynamic leader, with a clean past and who can lead the PLP.
Also, Abbott is a nightmare who should be restricted to the backbenches.

This is exactly what I hope will happen. I have never seen Corbyn as a long term leader, but as someone who can stand up to opposition enough to change the direction of the party back to the left. I have always hoped he would hand over to a bright young thing who can unite the party once that was achieved. I am always living in hope it seems Wink

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 16:59

I think a weak Tory government going ahead with Brexit is a good scenario right now though I don't think we should make any more predictions on anything now.

LurkingHusband · 03/06/2017 17:00

"Boris Johnson has been given reassurances from Number 10 that he will not be sacked as Foreign Secretary if the Tories are re-elected,The Telegraph understands.

Given how many times Theresa May has changed her mind, I'd question the use of the word "reassurances" ?

Maybe a better phrase would have been "a load of old toot" ?

Lazlo Wodbine would be proud Smile

howabout · 03/06/2017 17:01

Bigchoc I took the bottom of the Tory range, the bottom of the SNP range and the top of the Labour range - reasonable assumptions as I pointed out previously it is when Labour get ahead that the SNP really start to hurt and then the trade off elsewhere is Con-Lab. Not sure how the LibDem vs Con dynamic works but looking at Red's list may be in LibDem's favour?

Alastair Darling in East Renf today, so clearly he thinks it is in play for Lab win from SNP rather than Con. (Post boundary changes looks to be going back to safe Lab so not all bad)

prettybird · 03/06/2017 17:02

I think what is more likely than that over optimistic poll is that Scottish Labour voters who choose to vote Conservative this time round "to send the SNP a message" will result in Scotland, for the first time ever, making a difference in giving a government a working majority - and for that government to be a Conservative one ShockShockShock

Who'd have thunk it? Confused

The only consolation will be that May will end up being stabbed in the back for her hubris in thinking she could get a massively increased majority.

The fear is who will replace her?

I know the EU have said that the size of her majority would make no difference to how they would negotiate - but a UK government in turmoil will make a difference - even if it's only to make things difficult for the EU (let alone the UK! Sad) because of all the u-turns and vested/incompatible interests trying to be satisfied within the UK.

Bolshybookworm · 03/06/2017 17:05

There's a lot of labour placards up in deepest suburbia in Leeds North-West, Swedish. It's not just the students fighting this.

howabout · 03/06/2017 17:08

pretty you may well be right but if NS loses seats to the Tories to give the UK an overall Tory majority the Tartan Tory moniker is gonae stick back on faster than velcro- win win from my pov Grin

howabout · 03/06/2017 17:10

LH I wouldn't be surprised if BoJo resigned rather than be tainted by the constant state of discombobulation within the May Cabinet further.

Peregrina · 03/06/2017 17:11

I think BoJo will do what is best for BoJo.

LurkingHusband · 03/06/2017 17:12

BoJo can always fuck off and be American President if he likes ...

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 17:13

Interesting to see latest Opinium Poll showing changes to their 19th April poll, the first after GE was announced:

CON 43% (-2)
LAB 37% (+11)
LD 6% (-5)

The lead has dropped by 13%, not as much as the 20% YouGov drop, but YouGov started with a huge Tory lead.
imo, YouGov is a bigger swinger than the other polls !

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 17:14

However, after this GE, first the party needs to agree Labour should be a clear left alternative
But Corbyn then needs to hand over to a younger dynamic leader, with a clean past and who can lead the PLP.

I think that will be a fatal mistake so close to Brexit. Besides, any potential young and dynamic leader will need to be seen in public with him for quite some time for this to work sensibly. Anyone thinking Corbyn should be replaced within five years has probably not given a thought as to how the brains of under 30s work generally in these times.
I have been saying this on these forums that he must be seen talking before we get to decide because we simply had not seen him talking (me, my friends, family).
Once he got the air time, things turned rapidly. There is a situation behind behind that and that should be analysed and used to Labour's advantage so it could be kept up.
The next person for example should have at least

  1. Strictly similar record to Corbyn on the foreign wars (I have no idea why the importance of the visual impact of wars abroad is so ignored in our media regarding this age group)
  2. Stay left and must have the record to show for it.
  3. Must NOT talk like a dick generally. It was one of the biggest downfall of May et al. On the contrary, somebody young or at least a good understanding of younger lot, is behind some of the important decisions of Corbyn camp in the last few weeks.
  4. Should have had enough exposure in the media as his team. For example, if you google Corbyn's history, you will find literally all sorts of images that his pics throw at you. That is very relevant for the younger generation.

I don't think I see someone who has this kind of backup yet so it is far too early to start talk of who will be next to keep up Corbyn's left revival. Far too early and dangerous.

SwedishEdith · 03/06/2017 17:14

The loss of seats will mostly be due to the collapse of UKIP. Do you think Labour should become more like UKIP to get those votes back?

Read an interesting post on Twitter yesterday. The gist was: most Leavers are not Brexiteers. The referendum was binary so plumped for one option. Labour Leavers will revert to Labour in a GE.

Which may create a dilemma for Labour if assumes it has lots of leave voters and needs to pander/address them. But, also means they are persuadable if Labour offer them options for improving their own life chances. Which, surely, was at the heart of the white working class Leave vote.

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 17:14

I think BoJo will do what is best for BoJo.

Now that is a prediction I would definitely put money on Grin

prettybird · 03/06/2017 17:15

You would have the opposite impression to me then - it would have proven that Labour are the Tartan Tories, since it was their votes for the Conservatives who would have given the Conservatives a majority Howabout. Confused

Mathematically, it can't be interpreted any other way, because if the Conservatives have an overall majority, it wouldn't make any difference if the rest of the Scottish seats were SNP, Labour or Monster Raving Loony Party

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 17:15

I think BoJo will do what is best for BoJo.
He is such a blot. I wish I could alt/ctl/delete him from the politics of UK. Grin a child who just never got the chance to grow up. A child who always needs to be his own lover. I feel sorry for him sometimes.

prettybird · 03/06/2017 17:16

....in the same way that the SNP winning seats from Labour in 2015 wouldn't have made any difference to the result then because the Conservatives won an overall majority.

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 17:19

I should probably say that when I said I can see people who can keep up the work for Labour, I saw potential, not strictly a ready situation. So absolutely no need right now to change something that is working so well for Labour.

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 17:21

Matthew Goodwin‏*@GoodwinMJ*

#ge2017 forecasts - 5 days to go
Con majorities:
Lord Ashcroft 40-78
Electoral Calculus 74
Elections etc 71
Hanretty 69-109
Marriott 109

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SwedishEdith · 03/06/2017 17:25

I predict we'll have another GE before 2022.

2010 = hung parliament, 2015 = tiny Tory majority, 2017 = ??Everything is too volatile.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 03/06/2017 17:31

I'm preparing myself for disappointment when the BBC exit poll is announced as an 80-seat majority. That's just enough to provide a mandate for a May-style Brexit, and enough for Labour's right wing to rise again and lose the next election.

woman12345 · 03/06/2017 17:32

@faisalislam
.indeed missed in tumult, JP Morgan chief foreign exchange strategist said Labour led hung parliament "might actually be sterling positive"
Shock
Labour has won already. This is the long(hopefully not too long) game.