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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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woman12345 · 02/06/2017 10:08

I bet the Tory party is already sharpening their knives and the election campaign has been very useful for anti tory parties, and grass roots organisations. It's not been quite what any one expected so far, even with a tory win on whatever majority. A press black out/ refusal to do TV or radio and grandstanding announcements in No10's rose garden will be met with mass piss take over here.

woman12345 · 02/06/2017 10:11

national fish and chip so a big toda raba to Britain's Jewry for bringing it over.Grin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_and_chips

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 10:13

I liked what Barry Gardiner (Lab) said on QT last night - that we ought to accept that we are Brexiting for political not economic reasons, and accept the price for it. Dimbleby asked something like "Are you saying we will be worse off?" and he replied "Yes".

I thought that would go down like a bucket of cold sick with most people, so was a brave acknowledgement.

Fully agree. It was a good way of putting it and honest.

Davis actually backed him up to a degree with how he phrased what a 'bad deal' was in the eyes of the Conservatives.

I'm not sure it will get picked up on too much (Davis's comments on immigration target not being achievable by 2022 has got the attention) but I do think it probably the most significant point of the debate.

Gardiner's point actually also backed up what Cleggy said too about it being impossible to come to any deal that was economically preferable.

All three parties were in effect saying the same thing, which was notable.

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RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 10:17

order-order.com/2017/06/02/fanatical-remainer-gummer-said-brexit-made-him-sick-to-his-stomach/

Oh this is priceless. Guido Fawkes on Times rumour that Johnson is losing FCO, Davis taking over and Gummer getting Brexit Department.

Remainer Gummer...

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woman12345 · 02/06/2017 10:19

Well......if DD is now a remainer. Seems logical to put Gummer in.

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 10:24

Would this be a sign that May is back tracking, and will go for a 'Soft Brexit' or 'No Brexit'? She has form for doing U-turns after all.

I would enjoy a quiet chortle at all the May apologists who had to eat their words.

whatwouldrondo · 02/06/2017 10:33

I am now expecting a from UKIP to come out and declare that we should hold festivities and make it a bank holiday to celebrate our heritage.

Fried fish brought to England by western Sephardic Jews in the seventeenth century and then there are the chips AKA French fries, courtesy of the Huguenots (also responsible for Spittlefields and Shoreditch, and therefore hipsters)

squishysquirmy · 02/06/2017 10:33

Listening to the Justine Greening interview on women's hour.
Not saying much beyond the usual soundbites, but when banging on about the "coalition of chaos" she said to just look at the way "they were all arguing with each other on TV the other night....."
WTF? Leaders from different parties are SUPPOSED to engage and debate with each other. Since when has dissent become such a terrible threat to democracy?

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 10:34

Not everything the Huguenots did was good. Farage was descended from one, wasn't he?

whatwouldrondo · 02/06/2017 10:35

Guardian politics live on May's Brexit "plan"

With both May and Jeremy Corbyn making speeches on a post-EU UK yesterday, we now have a misty idea of what Brexit means, and it’s either terrible or completely brilliant, and don’t trouble yourself too much with the knotty details. The PM set out her 12-point plan for a brighter Brexit, which stretched the definition of plan with “points” including:

  1. Provide certainty and clarity.
  2. Strengthen the union.
  3. Control immigration.
12. Deliver a smooth orderly exit from the EU. (Don’t @ me: the other eight bullet points do appear in the plan, although that would have been a forgotten numbers gaffe to make a fuss about.)

While this sets the Tories apart from parties pledging uncertainty, obfuscation and an unruly stampede to the emergency brexits, it does still leave a few questions unanswered. Such as: yes, but what are you actually going to do?

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 10:35

Yes, they were arguing and squabbling - but that is a sign of a weak chairperson. A good one can keep a check on that sort of thing. It takes skill.

Tanith · 02/06/2017 10:36

Speaking of Farage, Craig McKinlay has just been charged over the 2015 election.

woman12345 · 02/06/2017 10:38

What have immigrants ever done for us? (apologies to Monty Python) I will so miss curries.Sad

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 10:39

I would say that this is what Gummer believed. I think it sounds pretty sincere.

Whether he still wants that, or sees opportunity in Tory Brexit is another matter. Its been suggested he is now a Brexit convert.

I'm not sure. Gummer is seemingly loyal to May and does her bidding. But does also apparently argue with her when he thinks he can get a strike in past her guard dogs Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.

If the 1922 Committee are about to call for Timothy's head then that opens May up to other influences. Johnson has also been smoozing, and trying to win friends in the party; this could be because he is being disloyal to May behind closed doors (note Johnson's comment about the Dementia Tax getting reversed before it was, which at the time would have been perceived as disloyalty rather than standing by the policy like others).

Johnson also gets to distance himself from Brexit if he is axed...

Westministenders – 10 days to go
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howabout · 02/06/2017 10:40

Bolshy I don't disagree with anything you say on the Republicans and my Republican insider mate Stateside would agree. However I think there is a problem with undermining the checks and balances even for the best of intentions - the road to hell and all that.

There is a further problem of the Democrats not taking the rest of the country with them. Losing the House and the Senate should have been a wake up call to stop preaching to all those keeping faith with Obama but voting otherwise locally.

Also, Trump may be bad but he looked pretty moderate next to some / most of the Republican alternatives. I think the Democrats have to look at themselves if HC was really the best option given her DH and her behaviour over the last 3 decades.

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 10:43

TORY ELECTION EXPENSES.... SOUTH THANET. CHARGES!
On Tory MP Craig MacKinlay who is standing again.

order-order.com/2017/06/02/craig-mackinlay-charged/

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RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 10:44

Ukip will be positively delighted. Farage will gloat about how he was right along and how great it is, the right decision is now being made.

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squishysquirmy · 02/06/2017 10:48

"Fried fish brought to England by western Sephardic Jews in the seventeenth century and then there are the chips AKA French fries, courtesy of the Huguenots"

Those foreigners, with their insidious influence on our food and culture.... the French will be affecting our language next.
OUTRAGEOUS Grin

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 10:48

Lucy Fisher‏*@LOS*_Fisher

NEW: Conservatives response to decision to charge Tory candidate Craig Mackinlay. Say election law is "fragmented, confused and unclear".

(and shit, because of that we thought we could get away with it... so we'll just criticise the law rather than our representatives).

Westministenders – 10 days to go
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howabout · 02/06/2017 10:58

On QT, DH was born in Barnet to 2 hippy parents with absolutely no regard for hardworking tax minimising capitalist values. Was deeply depressing to hear some of the audience comments last night and surely redressed any imbalance from the Debate the previous evening.

I thought Angus R acquitted himself very well and if I were in Moray, even though I am deeply opposed to Independence and thoroughly sick of the SNP I would be voting for him rather than the alternative - no idea if Moray would react the same though, but I assume he knows his constituents.

Interesting that Barnet is Theresa Villier's seat but despite being Remain the audience seemed quite happy to give her a free pass and just meekly accept all DD's platitudes. Barry was on a hiding to nothing so just had to sound half sentient and not say anything controversial which he achieved with admirable aplomb imho (I am a fully paid up member of his and DD's fan clubs paradoxically)

I think a weakened TM still winning may well be the worst of all possible outcomes, especially if the Torygraph et al get away with blaming her loss of support on being too Centrist.

woman12345 · 02/06/2017 11:09

TORY ELECTION EXPENSES.... SOUTH THANET. CHARGES!

Shall we call today 'Crick Day' in honour of the Michael?

Say election law is "fragmented, confused and unclear

Those pesky tories think of everything: monopoly money and now monopoly law.

Mistigri · 02/06/2017 11:09

However I think there is a problem with undermining the checks and balances even for the best of intentions - the road to hell and all that.

In what way do you thinj Obama undermined checks and balances? Compare his record on executive orders with those of other recent presidents. (There is literally nothing to see here - it's a bullshit narrative. There are reasons to criticise Obama but this is not one of them).

Trump looked pretty moderate compared to, say, Jeb Bush or John Kasich or even Chris Christie? Don't think so. OK, so Cruz is equally nutty, and Carson evidently performed brain surgery on himself at some point ... but the point is there were at least two sane and non-extreme Republican candidates.

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 11:11

John Simpson‏*@JohnSimpsonNews*

In my experience, when political parties start accusing the BBC of bias it's usually when they feel they're in trouble of some kind.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-officially-complain-bbc-over-10545346
Tories officially complain to the BBC over 'biased' debate audience
The audience was selected by independent pollsters ComRes, but the Tories still reckon it was stacked against them

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woman12345 · 02/06/2017 11:12

Hope Lib Dems complain about Neil's 'episode' yesterday evening.

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 11:13

Just as I blame Blair for most of DC's idiocy, the same could be said for Obama and Clinton and their high handed actions having caused Trump.

For a while now, quite a few people have warned that it's not this government who you need to worry about giving more power to.

It's the next one.