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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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woman12345 · 01/06/2017 23:18

Grin red

Motheroffourdragons · 01/06/2017 23:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Peregrina · 01/06/2017 23:29

What if Trump decides to scrap NATO? What will she do then?
Actually, I think I can answer my own question, because the UK goes running into whatever War the US tells us to involve ourselves with.

Motheroffourdragons · 01/06/2017 23:29

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 23:41

Every time Macron's speaks in English I like him a bit more. I also like him for deliberately speaking in French around Trump.

Have to say, as much as people don't like Cleggy, he's still twice the man / politician than a significant number of people who were MP before the election was called.

In another world Cleggy was PM and there are no tuition fees.

And May wanted to be a town planner not a politician. She left the profession in her youth after she got a dream job but was told she had to plan the next Milton Keynes and became totally disillusioned. She then tried teaching but didn't like talking to an audience so gave that up for a complete career change.

She now eats muesli and wears sandals and a cardigan and works in a care home looking after people with dementia.

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RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 23:42

I think there's a book in there: the alternative universe of politicians.

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prettybird · 01/06/2017 23:43

I think May thinks that Airstrip One, as a region of Oceania, is actually real Hmm

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 23:44

The UK was asked to sign the joint declaration condemning the US for pulling out of the Paris Climate Deal.

May declined

Apparently it's something to do with purdah rules.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 01/06/2017 23:45

Whereas saying your going to spend the evening working on Brexit isn't.

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 23:49

Apparently it's something to do with purdah rules

When the Election is over the new Tory government will repeal the fixed term act. Instead they will call another Election set in 2022 to extend the length of purdah to 5 years so that no civil service department can release any information to the public.

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prettybird · 01/06/2017 23:57

Wasn't there a court case during the election campaign because the government tried to stop the release of climate change statistics and the government lost the case because the information was in the public interest? Confused

I'd have thought that something like the Paris accord comes into the same category.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 00:02

MsHoolies That's tragic and outrageous in a country that supposedly has a welfare state.
There are so many cases across the country of people going hungry, getting cold, homeless, even dying - because they don't have the capability that others do, to jump through all the hoops.

Hoops mainly setup over years to stop the dreaded "benefit cheats" - but they also stop the most vulnerable claimants.

Any thread now about benefits or spending cuts attracts a gang of callous posters who attack the victims for not behaving more cleverly, make impractical suggestions of what they should have done.

when did being calllous become socially acceptable, even admirable ?

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 00:14

Neil:"May has been shown as a 2nd division politician"
Gove:"that would make me a Vauxhall conference division politician"

Well... You said it mate.

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RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 00:16

when did being calllous become socially acceptable, even admirable ?

Round about 23rd June 2016. Before then it was gaining popularity but after then it was socially acceptable. It also is very profitable.

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Grifone · 02/06/2017 06:05

MsHolliesCardigan your story is so tragic. I am so sorry Sad.

mathanxiety · 02/06/2017 06:20

MissHooliesCardigan - there are no words Shock.

I shed a tear or three at the plight of that poor woman in the Guardian video. This brave and beautiful and extremely capable and intelligent architect would be institutionalised if the Tory vision of modern Britain comes true?

I don't think this is a return to the 50s or 60s. It is a return to the days of Dickens.

Cailleach1 · 02/06/2017 06:34

It is a regressive turn, isn't it? At the time, the UK's welfare state was visionary. The NHS an epiphany.

Now the Con's are trying to dismantle the bricks.

About the Jolyon Maugham drop with the referral of the Irish case. It obviously gave hope to people that there are other avenues wrt Brexit. However, enough English battles and civil wars have used Ireland as their backdrop. This battle really needs to be fought by the UK, in the UK, and from the UK. Or Britain. Or England and Wales. If there was/is a coup, the ground will have to be retaken at home. Anything else will just appear or be portrayed as outside interference.

Cailleach1 · 02/06/2017 06:59

There will, of course, be lots of 'articles' saying Irexit will be next. And citing this long campaigning anti EU chap is par for the course. His views wouldn't be representative of many people. In my opinion, he would be hard to pigeon hole as a Farage (without any popular following) or slightly monster raving looney party.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/pain-of-staying-in-eu-without-britain-will-push-republic-ireland-to-exit-35775617.html

Whatever the pain of Brexit, I don't think Ireland is under any illusion that the benefit of being 'alone and naked' with Britain is better in the long run than a partner in the EU27.

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 07:21

May declined [to condemn Trump's pulling out of the Paris climate deal]
Apparently it's something to do with purdah rules.

That sounds like an excuse. If Purdah prevents her signing a statement it should also stop her attending the meeting in the first place, or making phone calls to him telling him she is 'disappointed'.

BiglyBadgers · 02/06/2017 07:28

I do think she is stretching the purdah excuse somewhat. I guess if you defined the statement as akin to a press release and claimed she would have been putting her name on it as an individual in a way that could be seen as promoting her personally. I can sort of see their reasoning, but it smells. They could easily have found a way round it I am sure. As pointed out above this is not the first time they have used purdah as an excuse Hmm

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 07:29

There will, of course, be lots of 'articles' saying Irexit will be next.

I think Ireland would fight this tooth and nail - the EU has been good for them. I can see a United Ireland happening - even though neither side wanted it, and the current GFA was a working compromise.

woman12345 · 02/06/2017 07:43

@faisalislam
Extraordinary response of US CEOs to Trump's withdrawal from Paris Agreement...

@faisalislam 6h
..also Trump travel ban, US CEOs did not hold back..all the more amazing how mute UK biz community is these days re disastrous public policy

Following on from what misti posted a while back.^

May's response's reasons are obvious.

On MrsHooliesCardigan story Flowers Thought Leanne Wood's(in leaders's debate) point on what's happened to the youth service affecting so much in teenagers' lives. But poverty is the ultimate cruelty.

Care and education of people with disabilities took giant steps in the 1980s. Mary Warnock wrote a great report on the education of people with disabilities. It was funded and implemented in schools and colleges. Flawed as her approach seems now, and the way it was put into practice then, it was done in a spirit of compassion and intelligence.

Charmageddon · 02/06/2017 07:45

Wrt Trump & the Climate Change agreement - I know practically nothing about the US system of government, so could someone with knowledge explain (please!).

I was always under the impression that the presidency is bigger than the man & that there are checks & balances built in to the American governance which stops a dictatorship.
Is Trump actually able to unilaterally pull out of something that America has signed up to, or is it subject to approval?
Can he really just do that at the stroke of a pen, with no consensus?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 07:57

Irish Leavers and Unionists (Irish & British) are fantasists wrt Ireland - I've also read suggestions that the RoI should rejoin the UK, not just Irexit !

Even with the RoI rejoined, that 70 million market is still much smaller than the E27 440 million
Not to forget the centuries that Ireland suffered under English domination.
The RoI has thrived with EU help - so has NI.

Opinion polls in RoI since the UK Leave result have shown 77-85% for staying in the EU
The wc vote only v slightly lower than the mc part

It's time Leavers accepted they're on their own.
No other countries want to share the misery. In fact the E27 seem more united than before the Brexit ref - many think they can progress more without the UK "with its hand on the brake of history" as a German EU negotiator was quoted.

Mistigri · 02/06/2017 08:22

there are checks & balances built in to the American governance which stops a dictatorship

The consensus of the American legal bods that I follow in Twitter is that the checks and balances are in fact relatively weak - they rely at least partly on convention, and on congress doing its job.

For example, a Trump is in clear breach of the emoluments clause (about using political office for personal gain) but unless congress acts, he will get away with it.

American democracy is rather fragile right now.