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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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Thread gallery
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frumpety · 01/06/2017 21:13

I would be hiding if I were TM , someone ( anyone ?) is bound to ask the question soon , ' why if you felt leaving was bad for the UK's prosperity , security and sovereignty in May 2016 , are you steaming ahead with a hard brexit that actually only 17.5 out of 65 million people in the UK allegedly voted for ?'

muckypup73 · 01/06/2017 21:16

Looks like it might well be if the tories get back in.................

BestIsWest · 01/06/2017 21:16

I just do not understand what objection people have to paying a bit more tax. We all benefit. A healthier, better educated country that looks after those less able to look after themselves benefits us all surel.

whatwouldrondo · 01/06/2017 21:18

BigChoc We had two close family friends who resisted putting their children, my peers, into care. I have already outlined the ridiculous ignorant treatment by the PIPs process of the friend severely affected by Thalidomide who went on to university and ran his own business but a life managing on four shortened limbs has left him in constant back and other pain and unable to carry on independently (PIPs assessor categorised it as congenital, fit to work, denied him the lifeline of his adapted car). The other child was brain damaged at birth, probably now there would have been compensation, but the lives of that family were only really saved by Horticap, providing them with respite and him with a means to reach his potential (and one that is so simple and relatively cheap). I really think it is as much a matter of attitudes as economics, back to medicalising disability.

whatwouldrondo · 01/06/2017 21:22

mucky me too.

Peregrina · 01/06/2017 21:24

I just do not understand what objection people have to paying a bit more tax.

May I just make the point that those who think Child Benefit should be means tested, (which it now is, but never was), and winter fuel allowances and bus passes for senior citizens should be scrapped, that these are all benefits, which initially have to be claimed. If the wealthy don't need them, then they should do the honourable thing and not claim. As far as I am aware, especially with CB, very very few did not claim.

Charmageddon · 01/06/2017 21:32

There were many posters on MN who were outraged at the scrapping of universal CB.

Didn't see how it was 'fair' that people earning over £50k per annum were going to 'lose out'.

lalalonglegs · 01/06/2017 21:39

As I recall, many people felt that removing the universal CB payments was the thin end of the wedge and a way of making people who earn above a certain level feel separated from and unserved by the welfare state.

Peregrina · 01/06/2017 21:45

Didn't see how it was 'fair' that people earning over £50k per annum were going to 'lose out'.

I think you prove my point. The wealthy, and this is more than people on £80K, were more than happy to claim CB, despite the fact that it would have made little difference to them. Having said that, it doesn't follow that because a family income is high that it is necessarily going to the children - it might have been that one partner, usually the man, was well paid, and kept most of his money to himself.

State pensions also have to be claimed. I have only knowingly met one person who didn't bother to claim his, because he had an extremely good work pension.

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 22:03

I think the other thing about benefits and CB was the idea of fairness. Two people earning £49,000 so a household income of much more than a single earner of £50,000 would still get it. The idea of unfairness rather than inequality comes around again.

Same thing to an extent with the idea of taxing those earning over £80,000. A couple on £40,000 each still much better off but perhaps without the responsibility / pressure that comes with having a single earner on £80,000. In this way, its not the top 5% of households that get taxed but just the top 5% of earners.

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RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 22:05

I'm gradually trying to put together a list of constituencies that YouGov thinks are in play. The update today is leaning much more CON. I will try and update this daily, but this is where we are at (still trying to identify all the seats changing which isn't immediately obvious so I might miss a few).

Yesterday's toss up list updated (Seats predicted to change hands in italics):
Barrow and Furness - STILL toss up CON/LAB (Currently LAB - John Woodcock)
Bath -> Now Lean Con (Currently CON - Ben Howlett)
Blackpool North and Cleveleys -> Now Lean Con (Currently CON - Paul Maynard)
Carmarthen East and Dinefwr - STILL toss up PLAID/LAB (currently Plaid - Johnathan Edwards)
Carshalton and Wallington - STILL toss up CON/LD (currently LD – Tom Brake)
Crewe and Nantwich -> Now Lean Con (currently CON - Edward Timpson)
Edinburgh West -> STILL toss up LD/SNP (elected as SNP – No Incumbent)
Gower -> Now Likely Labour (currently CON - Byron Davies)
Hendon -> Now Lean Labour (currently CON - Matthew Offord)
High Peak -> Now Lean Con (currently CON - Andrew Bingham)
Lewes -> Now Lean Con (currently CON - Maria Caulfield)
Newcastle-under-Lyme -> STILL tossup CON/LAB (currently LAB – Paul Farrelly)
Oxford West and Abingdon -> STILL toss up CON/LD (currently CON – Nicola Blackwood)
Pudsey -> STILL tossup CON/LAB (currently CON – Stuart Andrew)
Richmond Park -> STILL toss up CON/LD (currently LD – Sarah Olney)
Sheffield Hallam -> Now Lean Labour (Currently LD - Nick Clegg)
South Swindon -> Now Lean Con (currently CON - Robert Buckland)
Stockton South -> Now Lean Con (currently CON - James Wharton)
Stoke-on-Trent South -> STILL toss up CON/LAB (currently LAB – Rob Flello)
Thurrock -> STILL toss up CON/LAB (currently CON – Jackie Doyle-Price)

In addition we have some new toss ups.
Argyll and Bute -> CON/SNP (currently SNP – Brendan O’Hara)
Battersea -> CON/LAB (currently CON – Jane Ellison)
Canterbury -> CON/LAB (currently CON – Julian Brazier)
Carlisle -> CON/LAB (currently CON – John Stevenson)
Copeland -> CON/LAB (currently CON – Trudy Harrison)
East Devon -> CON/IND (currently CON – Hugo Swire)
Eastbourne -> CON/LD (currently CON – Caroline Ansell)
Finchley and Golders Green -> CON/LAB (currently CON – Mike Freer)
Keighley -> CON/ LAB (currently CON – Kris Hopkins)
Northampton North -> CON/LAB (currently CON – Michael Ellis)
Reading East -> CON/LAB (currently CON – Rob Wilson)
Stroud -> CON/LAB (currently CON – Neil Carmichael)
Vale of Clywd -> CON/LAB (currently CON – James Davies)
Walsall North -> CON/LAB (currently LAB – David Winnick)
Warrington South -> CON/LAB (currently CON – David Mowat)
Wirral West -> CON/LAB (currently LAB – Margaret Greenwood)
Moray -> CON/SNP (currently SNP – Angus Robertson)

Others that currently look like GAIN/LOSSES
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk -> CON gain from SNP (Calum Kerr)
Brighton Kemptown -> LAB gain from CON (Simon Kirby)
Bristol North West -> LAB gain from CON (Charlotte Leslie)
Croydon Central -> LAB gain from CON (Gavin Barwell)
Dumfries and Galloway -> CON gain from SNP (Richard Arkless)
East Renfrewshire -> CON gain from SNP (Kirsten Oswald)
Hastings and Rye -> LAB gain from CON (Amber Rudd)
Kingston and Surbiton -> LD gain from CON (James Berry)
Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland -> CON gain from LAB (Tom Blenkinsop)
North Norfolk -> CON gain from LD (Norman Lamb)
Ochil and South Perthshire -> CON gain from SNP (Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh)
Plymouth Sutton and Devonport -> LAB gain from CON (Johnny Mercer)
Southampton Itchen -> LAB gain from CON (Royston Smith)
Southport -> CON gain from LD (No Incumbent)
Twickenham -> LD gain from CON (Tania Mathias)
West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine -> CON gain from SNP (Stuart Donaldson)

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Peregrina · 01/06/2017 22:13

I can confirm that result for Oxford West and Abingdon - currently suggested to be neck and neck. Which would mean that the last Tory majority was cut from something like 9700.

I would be delighted to see Amber Rudd lose after last night's performance. Even a win for the Monster Raving Loony party, (unlikely) would be better than either her or UKIP.

Peregrina · 01/06/2017 22:27

A quick count, ignoring the ones where they were neck and neck, made 8 Tory Gains, 8 Labour and 2 LibDems. So virtually no change.

I would assume that anything less than the current number of Tory seats would mean that May is finished. 20-40 seats - she would probably hang on.

Lico · 01/06/2017 22:36

Just read in the Evening Standard that Amber Rudd's father died on Monday. I do not agree with her political views at all but credit where it is due 💐; she appeared on the Leaders debate the day after her Dad's death.
Very brave; makes Theresa May look pathetic.

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 22:44

The UK was asked to sign the joint declaration condemning the US for pulling out of the Paris Climate Deal.

May declined.

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MsHooliesCardigan · 01/06/2017 22:45

I have posted this 3 times before but I will post it again.
I'm a community mental health nurse. I spent 10 years working in a team for young adults with psychosis. On 22nd December 2015, I visited one of my patients and found out that her benefits had been stopped and she literally had no money. The reason her benefits were stopped was because she didn't attend a work capability assessment. The reason she didn't attend is because she didn't open the letter telling her about the appointment. The reason she didn't open the letter is because she thought all her mail was being intercepted by MI5.
I gave her £20 of my own money and a food bank voucher. I also gave her information about Crisis at Christmas although I knew she almost certainly wouldn't attend as she didn't have the confidence to walk into a room of people she had never met. In the past, she would have been able to get a crisis loan but the coalition abolished them. She couldn't borrow from her family as most of them were in her home country and the ones that were in the UK disowned her when she got ill. She couldn't borrow from friends as she didn't have any. I then went on annual leave.
When I came back to work in early January, I turned on my work phone to hear a message from the Police saying that she had been found hanged in a local park.
When they broke into her flat, they found that she had no gas or electricity and no food in her fridge or cupboards. It breaks my heart to think of her sitting there hungry, cold and in darkness in 'the season of goodwill'. Maybe having her benefits stopped had nothing to do with her taking her own life but if certainly wouldn't have helped.
She was 19 and had wanted to be a midwife before she got ill. She had been doing really well before this happened.
I have been a CPN for 18 years and this wouldn't have happened when I first started out. I have heard similar stories from colleagues. RIP Flowers

missmoon · 01/06/2017 22:45

Cambridge is very close (LD/Lab). The Lab majority is only around 550. Shouldn't it be on the list?

howabout · 01/06/2017 22:51

Red the counter to the view of the "pressure" on the single earner is always that the couple have the spare capacity of a SAHP. However factoring in higher tax rate threshold and loss of non earner PA and loss of CB things start to look very skewed especially with increasing provision of free childcare for high income 2 earner couples.

I don't understand why CB could not have been made taxable at the higher earners marginal rate rather than withdrawn as this would have kept people in the system but clawed back almost half.

The Evening Standard is running stories on Labour's plans to unwind IHT concessions for high value homes - perhaps even GO is bothered by the threat of 50% Labour polling in London. Pity he has already persuaded the thousands of pensioners at risk in Barnet that the dementia tax is a worse threat - bit of a spectator sport for anyone outside the South East.

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 22:58

Cambridge is very close (LD/Lab). The Lab majority is only around 550. Shouldn't it be on the list?

YouGov don't think it's close, and Labour have it in the bag. Which is why its not on the list.

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Peregrina · 01/06/2017 23:03

I don't understand why CB could not have been made taxable at the higher earners marginal rate rather than withdrawn as this would have kept people in the system but clawed back almost half.

I think you miss my point. Why did the wealthy feel that they needed to claim it in the first place? For a stay at home parent, claiming does allow you the National Insurance credit, which will later entitle you to a pension, but for the wealthy, the amount they would have to pay to make up any gaps in NIC entitlement is quite modest.

Now to be fair to Prince Charles, I believe that he donates his Navy pension to charity.

Peregrina · 01/06/2017 23:10

The UK was asked to sign the joint declaration condemning the US for pulling out of the Paris Climate Deal.
May declined.
Sucking up to Trump again.

For that alone I hope she and her party are defeated. Mrs Thatcher would not have behaved like that. Sir John Houghton, a climate scientist, who used to be head of the Met Office, praised her for being helpful in setting up the Hadley Centre for Climate Research. May is supposedly a geographer, which in some areas encompasses meteorological knowledge, but you would never know.

woman12345 · 01/06/2017 23:13

@faisalislam

Faisal Islam Retweeted Nicola Sturgeon
SNP Leader says "appalling abdication of leadership" by PM that UK is not a signatory to European letter blocking renegotiation of Paris

@jeremycorbyn
Pulling out of the #ParisClimateDeal is reckless and regressive. Instead of handholding, I'll work for a sustainable future for our planet.

Peregrina · 01/06/2017 23:15

I wonder how many scientists votes she has just lost with that action?

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 23:16

May is a geographer. She doesn't seem to understand where the UK is located and instead wants to remove it to the east coast of the USA.

Perhaps certain people believe I that climate will help that process.

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woman12345 · 01/06/2017 23:17

I wonder how many scientists votes she has just lost with that action?
A fair few, I'd guess. Peregrina .
@EmmanuelMacron makes a statement in English re Trump "Make our planet great again" he said: