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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

OP posts:
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howabout · 01/06/2017 14:11

squishy I can see both sides on assisted dying too, as I think can most. I think the other side of the coin from pressure to "not be a burden" is the inbuilt bias in our current health / social care set up towards length of life over quality of life. Paradoxically the cuts to NHS and Social Care seem to have made this worse. Resources are found for all sorts of acute treatments regardless of cost / benefit sometimes because the resource is not there for the ongoing chronic treatment which would make cheaper longer term impacts.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 14:15

I think that the YouGov "pool" means 7000 different members are brought into their rolling average every day and another 7000 drop off.
So there will be slight changes as the sample is changed, as well as changes due to the overall VI

Main thing is the massive drop in YouGov Tory lead since April, when it was 24%

whatwouldrondo · 01/06/2017 14:15

squishy You could once have said that about abortion, gay marriage, etc though Lurking.
Attitudes and religious beliefs evolve over time, even ideas that would once have seemed completely impossible for Christians to accept can become widely (although never universally) accepted.

The problem is that they can regress as well. Friends in the C of E who are part of the gay / disabled minorities are experiencing increased prejudice, discrimination and even hate, not less. It isn't just the old school Anglicans which May represents, the Conservative evangelical movement within the church has a lot of power because it's dynamic congregations are growing and represent hope for the future as the old school dies off. Their evangelical values are both homophobic and sexist. There is also a turn away from enabling and empowering the disabled back to disablist attitudes that see disability as a problem that can only be solved by the good deeds of the able, and the disabled as implicitly inferior. When Theresa May, and more recently Dominic Rabb, assumed learning difficulties to be a mental illness she was embracing a trend that sees neurological differences like autism and learning difficulties as diseases that can be the subject of cure, and even prevention / irradication. These attitudes are becoming teh prevalent driver of government policy. You can see how such attitudes would stretch to old age as well....

The Overton window has indeed shifted.

Killdora · 01/06/2017 14:17

The air certainly seems to be changing in this marginal. We can but hope and get everyone we know to watch the live debates, make their minds up and get out and vote

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 14:20

I had been expecting May to call the GE for 4 May, to coincide with the local elections.
Simultaneous campaigns would have strained the resources of the other parties who have much less money.
Also, with so much going on, the public were less likely to rumble her

I suspect she changed her mind late, possibly after the local election results confirmed the then Tory lead.

SwedishEdith · 01/06/2017 14:28

"She's actually a bit dim, "

I've just been polled by YouGov and they asked me if I thought TM was mean and dim. Grin

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 14:32

The air certainly seems to be changing in this marginal.

Haven't you said you are in Nuneaton? The YouGov thing still says it will stay Tory.

I think Labour are actively trying to lose this seat. Pretty poor in a marginal to not be seen out and about. Hmm

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 14:32

SwedishEdith

Grin
BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 14:47

Being in Germany, I've seen almost nothing of Theresa on TV.
I've just watched her answer why she hadn't debated:

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCNews/status/8699083500198297600_

Blimey, does she normally look this panicky, or is it a new thing ? Hmm

LurkingHusband · 01/06/2017 14:49

I think the election was called to stave off Theresa Mays Achilles heel - the fact she became Prime Minister, rather than was elected Prime Minister as leader of the largest party in 2015. Otherwise she would have forever (well, until 2020) been looking over her shoulder for a power-play by disaffected Tories.

I also think she had it in mind the moment she became party leader.

I also thinks she thinks she will become invulnerable when (her thoughts, not mine) the Tories win the election.

I have no doubt Mrs Thatcher thought she was invulnerable, which is why she pissed off to Paris rather than face her own party ... just before she was made to stand down.

LurkingHusband · 01/06/2017 14:50

Blimey, does she normally look this panicky, or is it a new thing ?

Reality bites ?

BiglyBadgers · 01/06/2017 14:50

Does anyone think it would be much easier for Corbyn to step down if the Labour Party actually do quite well, than if he's annihilated? He could hand over to someone competent having changed the debate about public provision of services..

Yes, I would agree with this. Before the election was called there was talk that he was just hanging on until the party conference to try and push a change to the rules for electing a leader that would take the power from the MPs and prioritise the will of the wider membership. This would have allowed them to ensure that there would be continue to be a left leaning candidate in any future leadership election. A good performance in this election would pretty much guarantee that change. However, whether he would then still want to stand down after doing much better than expected I don't know.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 14:51

Does anyone think it would be much easier for Corbyn to step down if the Labour Party actually do quite well, than if he's annihilated?

No. The left won't let him.

BiglyBadgers · 01/06/2017 14:53

I also thinks she thinks she will become invulnerable when (her thoughts, not mine) the Tories win the election.

I also think she believed that a huge majority was guaranteed and would wipe out any opposition. It is clear that May does not like to consult or be questioned in the decision making. I think she saw this as an election that would cement her place in power and leave her able to stamp out anyone inside or outside the Tory party who dared to suggest she might be wrong about something.

sodablackcurrant · 01/06/2017 14:55

I saw something recently, a picture with a caption. Don't know how to attach as I'm on desktop.

But anyway it said with suitably stern pic of TM....

"The lady is not for turning.........UP"

That's elections for you. Hilarious.

BiglyBadgers · 01/06/2017 14:56

No. The left won't let him.

What an odd thing to say. As long as there is another leftist candidate that can stand in any leadership election I really don't see anyone holding a gun to his head.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 15:01

That's a thought wrt not being out & about
Maybe May has suddenly realised what Brexit means, so she's trying to throw this GE for some other silly bugger to deal with

Tough luck.
Cameron, then Bojo beat you to it. The music stopped and the parcel of shit is yours.
You'll be dumped once they fix the blame on you

For Labour: This may be a GE where a respectable loss is the best result.

BiglyBadgers · 01/06/2017 15:02

Maybe May has suddenly realised what Brexit means, so she's trying to throw this GE for some other silly bugger to deal with

We will know this is the case when she starts openly strangling kittens in front of the press. Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 15:06

No, just a whimsical fantasy, she's not that clever.
She's just panicking that she won't improve much on her original majority. She expected a landslide.
Reality may also be sinking in over Brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 15:08

"openly" strangling kittens
I agree, she probably just strangles them in private now - the grimaces are when she's getting the little bits of fur out of her back teeth

SapphireStrange · 01/06/2017 15:09

Totally agree, BigChoc.

I think the Tories will still win, but I will take some pleasure in the thought of May not coming out of it with the resounding victory she's been assuming is hers.

muckypup73 · 01/06/2017 15:09

the Conservatives on 42% and Labour on 39% so the gap is closing.

howabout · 01/06/2017 15:15

Don't see the next generation of the Left emerging quite yet though Bigly? I reckon JC will stay in paternalistic role till Brexit done and they get a bit more Cabinet / Shadow Cabinet experience under their belt.

I think Charlie F was correct to pronounce the demise of Blairism and Austerity economics so that cuts out most of the established generation of the last 20 years - too many inconvenient quotes / votes to drag out to haunt them.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 15:15

the Conservatives on 42% and Labour on 39% so the gap is closing.

Depends where you look. YouGov has lead increasing again....

Westministenders – 10 days to go
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 15:18

Sorry pressed too soon. Increasing for Labour in London which is in the wrong place. No point in increasing vote share in areas you already hold the seat.

Panel Base has 8 point lead overall for Tories

Westministenders – 10 days to go