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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 12:29

Extraordinary (Times paywall article) claiming that May is a prisoner of advisers "Nick & Fi" Hmm

She's PM fgs. Hopefully she's not that pathetic Hmm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/after-this-mess-mrs-may-needs-a-relaunch-fd0prkx6p

" from conversations with the prime minister’s supporters a troubling picture emerges of a deeply dysfunctional set-up tested in the election and now broken.

“Theresa has been held hostage by that pair,” says a pro-May senior Tory of her twin chiefs of staff.

“Theresa and Philip [May] are bossed around by Nick and Fi,” says another.

While Mrs May as a new prime minister became steadily co-dependent, her friends worry that her closest team got drunk on power.

Originally, voters cited Mrs May as serious and grown-up, and some still do.
For others watching her get into difficulties, that perception of strength flipped into a view that she is baffling at best and a bit mean (taking away school lunches) at worst."

Article concludes:
"No one should care for a second whether it offends “Nick and Fi” or whether they’ll stand for it.
That is a tenth order issue compared to what is at stake here.

The Brexit talks begin in under three weeks, and Mrs May has a duty to do much better."

LurkingHusband · 01/06/2017 12:33

I wonder if we are drifting into the realms of self-fulfilling prophecies here ? Certainly MayMania appears to have fizzled out, and there is a palpable sense of nervousness from quarters that should really be over-ordering the bubbly.

The sudden increase in threads elsewhere on Mumsnet that have a decidedly ... odd air also hints at an explosion of activity in the social media engine rooms ("Homeland" was a documentary ....)

BiglyBadgers · 01/06/2017 12:35

The New Statesman has been running the Tory and labour manifestos through a simulation game called Democracy 3. Now, I am well aware that this does not really demonstrate anything, but thought you might enjoy reading the results just for a bit of fun.

Tory manifesto: www.newstatesman.com/2017/05/simulection-we-ran-tory-2017-manifesto-through-video-game-and-results-were-terrifying

Labour manifesto: www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2017/06/we-ran-labours-2017-manifesto-through-video-game-and-got-egalitarian

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/06/2017 12:38

I know this comes as no surprise

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
Latest @ElectoralCommUK weekly campaign funding figures for election: huge numbers for Conservative coffers, 84% of it all, £3.8m

Westministenders – 10 days to go
SwedishEdith · 01/06/2017 12:40

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/01/nigel-farage-is-person-of-interest-in-fbi-investigation-into-trump-and-russia?CMP=share_btn_tw

Nigel Farage is 'person of interest' in FBI investigation into Trump and Russia

Please, please, please God, may this materialise into something. Grin

squishysquirmy · 01/06/2017 12:58

I'll join you in that prayer, Swedish!

Artisanjam · 01/06/2017 13:03

What has struck me with this campaign is how much it is back to business at usual rather than the much more sinister enemies of the people line we have been getting from the Mail etc.

While I don't really expect the conservatives to lose, this campaign has been much much more damaging than the expected - u-turns on manifesto policies, unpopular policies, incorrectly costed policies and personal attacks on Corbyn which can substantially be deflected by him coming across as generally quite likeable when all of them look incompetent.

I suspect the level of opposition and mockery (e.g. Protest songs st #1!)has caught them by surprise and they don't know how to deal with it after squashing all dissent as unpatriotic and against the will of the people. Complaining about their treatment makes them look whingey and pathetic as does not participating...

This will be very interesting for how they cope with government after this - the next election could be much much worse.

squishysquirmy · 01/06/2017 13:04

"The sudden increase in threads elsewhere on Mumsnet that have a decidedly ... odd air also hints at an explosion of activity in the social media engine rooms"

I hope I'm being a paranoid, tinfoil hatted nutter here, but does anyone else feel like the overton window on assisted dying is being shifted? Not just on mumsnet, but elsewhere too.
For what its worth, I do see both sides of the argument, and would fully support assisted dying if I was confident that people would freely make the decision, without money/inheritance being a factor in that decision. I sympathise with people who have been pushing for assisted dying for a while now, based on dignity, autonomy, and relief from suffering. What worries me is that it is now being suggested more and more as a solution to the problem of funding care for the elderly. I find the idea of suicide to save money deeply disturbing.

ElenaGreco123 · 01/06/2017 13:09

Nigel must be so proud. He loves the limelight. That is why he met with Assange at the Ecuadorian embassy like in a real spy movie.

Squishy My own view on assisted dying was moved by personal experience, not Mumsnet. Sadly.

SwedishEdith · 01/06/2017 13:11

Yes. I've seen more casual talk of suicide as a viable option when get older - which it is but it does feel a bit nudgey.

squishysquirmy · 01/06/2017 13:17

Sorry Elena. I am not criticising people who support assisted dying at all, I am just uncomfortable that the arguments in favour of it seem to be moving away from the comfort and dignity of the dying, towards arguments based on money.
Assisted dying to help people who cannot bear to live (due to pain and poor quality of life) I understand. Assisted dying as the only help for people who can't afford to live is wrong.

LurkingHusband · 01/06/2017 13:18

For what its worth, I do see both sides of the argument, and would fully support assisted dying if I was confident that people would freely make the decision, without money/inheritance being a factor in that decision.

You'll never get that as long as the UK is a Christian country.

squishysquirmy · 01/06/2017 13:24

You could once have said that about abortion, gay marriage, etc though Lurking.
Attitudes and religious beliefs evolve over time, even ideas that would once have seemed completely impossible for Christians to accept can become widely (although never universally) accepted.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 13:25

Switchback: May tells voters to use election to 'affirm' EU referendum result

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/jun/01/general-election-2017-may-absence-leaders-debate-brexit-politics-live?page=with:block-592ff13ce4b00493c827826b#block-592ff13ce4b00493c827826b

We are now 12 months on from the EU referendum.

Twelve months since the British people voted for a brighter future for our country.
Twelve months since they voted to leave the European Union and embrace the world Hmm
And in one week’s time, they have the opportunity to

affirm that decision and
secure that brighter future by voting for me to continue as prime minister." < does not compute ! >

TheElementsSong · 01/06/2017 13:26

I'd say the Overton window on immigration and racism has certainly moved, so far and so fast I'm practically seeing the Doppler effect.

SwedishEdith · 01/06/2017 13:33

"Switchback: May tells voters to use election to 'affirm' EU referendum result"

So she's chasing Kippers who may be veering to Corbyn on social policies and Labour leavers.

LurkingHusband · 01/06/2017 13:43

Switchback: May tells voters to use election to 'affirm' EU referendum result"

...and vote Labour then. Certainly if you are a kipper in a seat where Labour are a better bet than the Tories.

She's actually a bit dim, isn't she ?

sodablackcurrant · 01/06/2017 13:44

Hello, I am not in UK, and am late to the party.

Can someone tell me did I dream it or did May say she was fully Remain, but is now working for the "will of the British people on Brexit". I have a feeling I heard that listening to a podcast late at night.

If I did hear it property in context, I thought to myself what a hypocrite. But that's just me. How can she be talking out of both sides of her mouth.

Anyway, I still think the Tories will win, but with a very much slimmed down majority that that envisaged when the election was called. Corbyn is far from the epithets ascribed to him also, and the more exposure he gets on TV and other (non biased) print media the better.

The hare and the tortoise.

It is very interesting from afar, and I really enjoy reading all you erudite posters on an issue that I am fascinated by but cannot participate in on the ballot paper.

I think the campaign was too long. If May wanted to win it should have short and sharp.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 13:48

Can someone tell me did I dream it or did May say she was fully Remain, but is now working for the "will of the British people on Brexit". I have a feeling I heard that listening to a podcast late at night.

Yes but so allegedly is Corbyn.

squishysquirmy · 01/06/2017 13:53

"I think the campaign was too long. If May wanted to win it should have short and sharp."
Is there a minimum notice period before a GE can be called? I know that the time between dissolving parliament and polling day is set at 25 working days (so about 5 weeks?), so I suppose she couldn't have made it much shorter even if she had wanted to.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 13:56

YouGov have Tories now on a 4 point lead. Up one from yesterday.

howabout · 01/06/2017 13:58

soda I think May actually went for the shortest timetable possible. There is a 6 week purdah period between dissolution of Parliament and GE and she neatly managed to cut into this by announcing GE while everyone else was still focused on the May Council elections.

Granted 6 weeks feels like a very long time in politics atm.

howabout · 01/06/2017 14:03

"affirm that decision and secure that brighter future by voting for me to continue as prime minister."

wrong manifesto then to extend austerity to old as well as young Shock

Labour making all the running on rainbows and unicorns For the Many Smile Even Polly Toynbee and Charlie Falconer are on message Corbynistas today.

Artisanjam · 01/06/2017 14:08

Does anyone think it would be much easier for Corbyn to step down if the Labour Party actually do quite well, than if he's annihilated? He could hand over to someone competent having changed the debate about public provision of services..

sodablackcurrant · 01/06/2017 14:10

Thanks for all the information regarding the minimum time frame for the election day. I wasn't aware of that.