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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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BiglyBadgers · 01/06/2017 15:26

Don't see the next generation of the Left emerging quite yet though Bigly? I reckon JC will stay in paternalistic role till Brexit done and they get a bit more Cabinet / Shadow Cabinet experience under their belt.

A fair point. The centre right has dominated for so long there isn't really a left base with political experience to draw from. That will need to be built up, but talent can often spring up remarkably quickly once it is given the space and opportunity. Anyway, this is all rather speculative when we still have a whole week for labour to screw it up Wink

woman12345 · 01/06/2017 15:28

Main thing is the massive drop in YouGov Tory lead since April, when it was 24% 'not a landslide' will do nicely thank you. Smile. There will be worse to come for her, it will be short lived, and she will be Thatchered.

woman12345 · 01/06/2017 15:45

General election poll: Jeremy Corbyn surges ahead of Theresa May in London The YouGov survey shows Labour surging to a 17 point lead in the UK's capita Among those London Conservatives most vulnerable in the light of the poll are Housing Minister Gavin Barwell and Tania Mathias could well be replaced by a returning Sir Vince Cable.

Figmentofmyimagination · 01/06/2017 16:11

Something new and thought provoking from the Social Europe website -

fedtrust.co.uk/the-2017-general-election-a-mandate-for-brexit/

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 01/06/2017 16:12

The question of what happens after a respectable Labour loss (e.g. an increased vote share) is a good one. Will the party learn that you can be popular without being focus-grouped to buggery? Will there be people saying "if only we were blander we might have done better". Someone with youth on their side, some gravitas but not afraid to be a social democrat could do well. Does such a person exist?

Of course. Chickens etc. I still expect to wake up next Friday with a 100 seat Tory majority.

sodablackcurrant · 01/06/2017 16:23

I would be very wary of a Corbyn/Labour victory here.

Sorry, no need for me to tell you that polls did not say Brexit or Trump.

Still if Labour nip on the heels of the Tories, and the Tories don't get the landslide they anticipated. Well....

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 16:36

Panelbase is interesting. Seens heading in the same direction of travel to YouGov.

Panelbase 19 - 23 May had
Con 48%
Lab 33%
LD 7%

Now
Con 44%
Lab 36%
LD 7%

A Con lead of seven points ahead is supposedly no swing. This is a shade higher. Giving Con majority of just 12.
The YouGov lead of 3 points ahead is supposed to equivalent of a 1.8% swing to Labour. Making the Cons 10 seats short of a majority.

Easy to see there is very little in this, and how although the YouGov poll looks bold, I'm not so sure its as bold as the headline looks.

Also worth pointing out the reality of a Labour win is still extreme. In order to do this you would be looking at Labour needing to be 12 points ahead of the Cons in polling to get a majority of 1. Even with the tide behind Labour this isn't happening. It won't be a Trump situation. Simply because there isn't enough movement there to see it happen.

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BiglyBadgers · 01/06/2017 16:38

I still think we are looking at an increased Tory majority, but not as large as originally predicted.

I am aware this is not a popular view on here, but I would not be weeping into my pillow with horror if labour did win. I would happily take the right policies with poor leadership skills over the wrong policies with horrific leadership skills.

woman12345 · 01/06/2017 16:43

Figmentofmyimagination, thanks, great article. "The British constitution is what happens" yikes. Whoever the new intake of MPs are, let's hope there are some brave remainers.

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2017 16:44

Sorry, no need for me to tell you that polls did not say Brexit or Trump.

Still if Labour nip on the heels of the Tories, and the Tories don't get the landslide they anticipated. Well....

Won't happen. There are reasons it didn't show in the US.
Reasons that don't actually exist in the same why in the UK.

I still think there will be a Tory Majority, but it might not be the landslide and mandate the size of Macron's that May was looking for.

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squishysquirmy · 01/06/2017 16:44

I am still preparing myself for the worst a huge Tory majority.
I found the leadership debate quite enjoyable to watch, Grin but what struck me was how "out-numbered" Rudd and Nuttall were by the other leaders. At first glance, this looks like a strength of the left of centre parties, but it works in the Tories favour; There are more left of centre parties than there are right of centre parties. This splits the vote and helps the Tories.

sodablackcurrant · 01/06/2017 16:46

I have no skin in the game as I have no vote in UK. But I enjoy reading about it and listening to it from afar.

I am totally amazed that the tide has turned so much.

Does anyone think it will turn further against the Tories? I realise that is an open question and who knows? But from those on the ground what do you think?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 16:49

I think it will be a 40 seat Tory majority.

Unfortunately I think some very good Labour MPs could lose their seats.

It seems Farron and Clegg could lose their seats. If that is the case it could be all change for LibDems.

HashiAsLarry · 01/06/2017 16:50

but I would not be weeping into my pillow with horror if labour did win.
Me either. I have far more faith in brexit with starmer at the helm than Davis.

woman12345 · 01/06/2017 16:54

Stuff changes. I remember seeing the slump of tory MPs when I went to parliament in 2003? They looked absolutely gutted, 6 years in on the opposition benches, they were doing terribly. Grin Stuff changes and good politicians like Clegg and Farron will still be needed. Politics is a vocation not a career. Hence the quality of a lot of the tories. Smile

Mistigri · 01/06/2017 17:01

I still think we are looking at an increased Tory majority, but not as large as originally predicted.

Agree, though with the caveat that we don't yet know what impact the debate has had. It could be quite large - the final French presidential debate probably gained Macron 5 points.

I am aware this is not a popular view on here, but I would not be weeping into my pillow with horror if labour did win. I would happily take the right policies with poor leadership skills over the wrong policies with horrific leadership skills.

It's a no brainer. You get JC or TM, there is no Macron on a white horse riding to the rescue ;) For me the only question that really matters is who you want leading the brexit negotiations: Davis or Starmer.

lalalonglegs · 01/06/2017 17:02

Has anyone seen this? Jolyon Maugham has abandoned the Irish case that seeks clarity on Brexit. More details on his blog:

A number of matters have become apparent. In particular, it is clear that Ireland does not want a reference to the Court of Justice in Luxembourg of the questions in the proceedings. This stance surprised me. I believed that the Ireland would want to act mindful of the law rather than in the dark. But, surprising or not, it has consequences.

...A number of matters have become apparent. In particular, it is clear that Ireland does not want a reference to the Court of Justice in Luxembourg of the questions in the proceedings. This stance surprised me. I believed that the Ireland would want to act mindful of the law rather than in the dark. But, surprising or not, it has consequences.

Sad
LurkingHusband · 01/06/2017 17:03

Politics is a vocation not a career.

In which case we need to have limits on terms (cf US presidents since Roosevelt).

sodablackcurrant · 01/06/2017 17:05

I know you all want a good negotiator for Brexit.

Sad that it is required though imo.

Things will never be the same again (maybe that's what you all want), but I would wonder what the result will be.

Anyway.

lalalonglegs · 01/06/2017 17:09

Oops, second c&p paragraph should read:

...We knew there was no guarantee of success. But we were right to try. It’s now up to all of us to take our love of our country and our optimism that there is a positive way forward and channel it to protect, Brexit or no Brexit, the values we care about.

squoosh · 01/06/2017 17:10

I am aware this is not a popular view on here, but I would not be weeping into my pillow with horror if labour did win.

I'd be delighted with a Labour but I certainly don't expect one.

squoosh · 01/06/2017 17:10

Starmer v Davis.

No contest in my mind.

Motheroffourdragons · 01/06/2017 17:13

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 17:15

Does anyone think it will turn further against the Tories?

No I don't think so. I actually think it will sure up their vote. Those who are wavering or weren't going to vote will.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 01/06/2017 17:16

Filling me with fear, my son who is 18 has seen lots of stuff on social media today rubbishing Labour and Corbyn in particular. I am hoping this is a blip, I thought they were most popular in the 18-24 age bracket.

They are with some not with others. Same as other age groups.

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