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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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SwedishEdith · 31/05/2017 23:16

Didn't realise that Peregrina. I'd hope there's some system that blocks you on one roll if a proxy vote is applied for on another.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:18

Britain Elects @ BritainElects
In the event of a hung parliament, Theresa May should, as Conservative party leader...

Remain: 42%
Resign: 37%

(via @YouGov)

Public preference for result:

Con majority: 62%
Hung, Con ahead: 7%
Hung, Lab ahead: 5%
Lab majority: 7%

(via @YouGov)

On which party has the best policies for you and your family:

LAB: 35%
CON: 29%
LDEM: 6%
UKIP: 4%
[DK]: 26%

(via @YouGov)

On which party has the best policies for the country:

LAB: 33%
CON: 32%
LDEM: 6%
UKIP: 4%
[DK]: 25%

(via @YouGov)

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Peregrina · 31/05/2017 23:19

Theresa May to abandon strategy of attacking Jeremy Corbyn

What, yet another U-turn?
I for one won't be getting behind her to deliver a successful Brexit. It's up to her and if she fails, she fails.

(I don't even know what we are supposed to do to deliver a successful Brexit? Go and volunteer for fruit picking? )

Peregrina · 31/05/2017 23:23

I'd hope there's some system that blocks you on one roll if a proxy vote is applied for on another.

I have no idea, and since Dad passed away a number of years ago, I can't ask him. I suspect not; I suspect it's done on trust.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:35

Mail front page headline:

Fury at bias in BBC TV debate.
TV chiefs under fired for the most left wing audience ever.

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RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:37

George Eaton @georgeeaton
Since my tweet has become Mail splash, should say it was casual observation ("feels like"), not allegation of bias.

That audience that was picked by ComRes.

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HashiAsLarry · 31/05/2017 23:38

In 2001 I could have double voted. Sadly I wasn't Tory enough that df didn't correct them. Bastard. Though thankfully it never occurred to him to postal vote for me. He's at least honest.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:48

Daniel Tomlinson @dantomlinson
So, it seems no-one has noticed, but the govt published the latest statistics on trade union membership today. Here's the key points... 1/
First, the stats show a massive fall in membership levels in 2016. The biggest we've seen since records began in 1995. 2/
Overall, membership has fallen by a quarter of a million in one year. With membership among employees down by 275,000. 3/
And this is at the same time as reasonably strong growth in employment (unlike the falls in the wake of the financial crisis) 4/
Which means that trade union density (the propn of people in membership) has also fallen sharply 5/
It's down to 23.5% among employees and 21.0% among everyone in employment. Which means a fall of more than a fifth since 2000. 6/
This fall was driven by lower membership rates in the public sector - where the number of trade union members fell by 200k in 2016. 7/
It looks like something strange has happened in education, this sector alone accounts for more than half of the overall decline in2016. 8/
Ultimately membership is still skewed towards well-paid, (older), public sector workers. 9/
Without a reversal of these trends a powerful union movement runs the risk of becoming a thing of history - a 20th century aberration. 10/
resolutiontrust.org/trade-union-membership-has-fallen-further-than-ever-before

I think this is more important than people realise. What implications for Labour? Is there a dissatisfaction and dissillusion with Unions? The idea of them being corrupt like local councils? Unfashionable with the young? Are the young even really in jobs which have unions in the same way as their elders?

I don't know but somehow this does seem relevant.

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RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:55

DH speculating that people can't afford union fees and unions are 'doing nothing'. ?

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Valentine2 · 31/05/2017 23:57

He just thinks he can get 'full access to it' is all, whilst stopping FoM - which he can't do.

Yes and it is just another way of saying what I wrote up here. he has said it time and again. It comes down to the same thing in the end as quite a few of his other speeches elsewhere refer clearly to his intentions of keeping economy his top priority, with him discussing the economy right after Brexit points which is quite clever I think.
Somebody, somewhere in Labour ranks have hired a very good media campaign team. The leaked manifesto. The last minute turning up at the debate tonight. Him pointing to his manifesto when someone raises PLP melodrama.

It's brilliant campaigning.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:57

TSE @TSEofPB
April 2015, Cameron had a 14% lead over Miliband on the best PM question.

Tonight May has a 13% lead over Corbyn on the same question

Thinks back to that survey that showed majority directly relational to popularity of leader of winning party and leader of opposition...

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Valentine2 · 01/06/2017 00:00

Fury at bias in BBC TV debate.
TV chiefs under fired for the most left wing audience ever.

DH nearly lost some money on this to me tonight. he has the financial sense to not bet against me that involves money I told him this is going to be one of the headlines of Fail. Grin

Charmageddon · 01/06/2017 00:12

I think the audience appearing to be v v left wing is because momentum are a very noisy lot.
I'd be beyond shocked if the BBC hadn't ensured a proper balance tbh - I think the Tories were just quieter.

Valentine2 · 01/06/2017 00:24

I think the Tories were just quieter.
No I can't believe that. I have seen Tories in PMQs for ages. They are anything but quieter.
Just saw Damian "best way out of poverty is work" Green getting what he deserved from Emily Thornberry. Still chuckling at "the only numbers you have got in your manifesto are page numbers" or something to that effect.

Valentine2 · 01/06/2017 00:29

And Lucas and others got some of the largest applauses too. How come Momentum were applauding them if BBC actually let Momentum in that is?
I think Rudd has my sympathy on one account only: her father died and she turned up to mop up the mess of her senior. Other than that, I don't think it was anything really.

Cailleach1 · 01/06/2017 00:42

I must admit when Rudd was lauding May's leadership qualities esp. re brexit negotiations, both my OH and myself immediately said "oh yeah, will she run scared of a face to face, and duck her role there too".

I wouldn't give Rudd's input the time of day. Sent in as a proxy. And she had the bare faced cheek to talk about Labour and the magic money tree. A Con without any proper manifesto costing. Whose leader couldn't even intime where the funding would come from. Just said 'from the great economy we will build in the future'. i.e. a magic money tree. The hypocritical gall of Rudd!

If May was ill, it would be different. Then her office would have to say she was unable to attend because of illness.

As for Georgie. He has found his sunny uplands. not that he experienced much other than that in his privileged life .

mybrainhurtsalot · 01/06/2017 01:39

I think they have said the audience at the debate was selected by ComRes to reflect the country demographically and politically.

I read a really interesting write up by someone in the audience at a recent Question Time. She said David Dimbleby spoke to them beforehand and specifically requested that Conservatives contribute to the debate.

Westministenders – 10 days to go
BestIsWest · 01/06/2017 05:50

On the 2 polling cards thing, DD registered in another constituency for the local elections but we still got a card for her to this address. However on polling day there was a line through her name on the polling clerk's register so there must be some cross checking going on.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 06:37

May / Crosby were foolish to base their whole campaign on "May for PM" when their strategy was also to shield her from appearing in debates, or talking to the public or to journalists

If they intended her to be the focus of the campaign, then she should be be the main spokesperson, fronting it properly, not hiding away.

As it is, their campaign has backfired, showing that when the going gets tough, the PM gets going and hides.

Also, she missed a great PR opportunity:
she could have attended the debate saying it was because Rudd's father had died, i.e. Teresa to the rescue, no U-turn

WeakAndUnstable · 01/06/2017 06:39

On the proxy for thing...you can only apply for a proxy to vote in your registered constituency (either current or last place registered). If that proxy cannot get to vote on your behalf within that specific constituency on voting day, they can apply to be a postal proxy but the proxy vote is still only registered in your original constituency, not theirs. I'd imagine voters who've authorized a proxy should be crossed off the face to face register...nowadays you also have to renew your declaration for postal proxies (even those with indefinite authorization) annually. At least for Southwark Grin

...And when you change constituency you have to state your previous address to be cross-checked and removed from that register before getting put on the new one. Also did that this year.

So the process works OK and should prevent doubles in theory, but there's ample room for human error because the process of registration transfers is almost entirely manual.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 06:44

YouGov lead has dropped from 24% at the start of the campaign to 3% now

Does their weighting methodology exaggerate the swings more than other polling orgs ? Hmm

Changes since their poll conducted 18-19 April

CON 42% (-6)LAB 39% (+15)
LDEM 7% (-5)
UKIP 4% (-3)

Labour seem to have taken votes from LDem, Con, RedKIP (who are keen on traditional Labour policies like nationalisation)
The DontKnows have also heavily broken for Labour.

Also, Labour campaign is considered more honest:

"Have the campaigns been honest vs dishonest ?"
(changes from 2-3 May)

CON -27% (-9%)
LAB 0% (+13%)

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 06:59

Kantar's poll showing CON +1, LAB -1

Since their last poll, they changed their method for allocating DontKnows / NoPref:
they now base this on how respondents answer "trustworthiness" of May and Corbyn.

This alone caused the -1 drop for Labour
Whether this new methodology is less / more accurate, it means there was no real drop.

Their other change captured postal voting

Poll / methodology detail:

www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/sites/tns-bmrb/files/KPUK%20-%20final%20tables%20-%2031.5.2017.pdf

ElenaGreco123 · 01/06/2017 07:12

The fall in trade union membership is probably to with chsnging working practices like self-employment and zero hour contracts.

Motheroffourdragons · 01/06/2017 07:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/06/2017 07:38

UK's Trident nuclear submarines 'vulnerable to catastrophic hack'

a successful cyber-attack could “neutralise operations, lead to loss of life, defeat or perhaps even the catastrophic exchange of nuclear warheads (directly or indirectly)”.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/01/uks-trident-nuclear-submarines-vulnerable-to-catastrophic-hack-cyber-attack

Although the subs are not connected to the Internet at sea, they are connnected during maintenance at Faslane, because the software systems need frequent upgrades
btw, the subs use Windows XP

Des Brown,former defense sec:
"To imagine that critical digital systems at the heart of nuclear weapon systems are somehow immune or can be confidently protected by dedicated teams of network managers is to be irresponsibly complacent.”