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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 22:21

This is the same one that is already been in their site today.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 22:23

This one also out today. 10 point lead for Tories.

Tories up 1 point. Labour down 1.

Westministenders – 10 days to go
RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 22:25

That one has just been published at 10pm by the Times.

It looks similar but is different. Polling done on 30 / 31st May.

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woman12345 · 31/05/2017 22:25

he is spritely
Almost elvish? I liked his anecdote on the One Show about getting rid of the concrete in his front garden to green it. He really got animated describing the labour involved. Gardening is usually a pretty endearing hobby? Keeps him fit, for sure.

I don't think TM's diabetes or anyone's illness should stop them from doing a job they are good at or enjoy, though. But when such cruelty has been dished out through PIP and other gov policies, it's ironic when these questions are asked. Hope disability rights are up there with everything else when all this mess is resolved.

Was crying wolf over Jeremy Corbyn a mistake for the right-wing press? The more the public see of Corbyn, the less they buy the print narrative they’ve been sold

www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/05/case-labour-government-word-housing

In this light, Labour’s strategy of focusing on TV and radio and excluding newspapers during the campaign looks inspired. Not only do impartiality rules mean that the biases typical of UK newspapers do less damage here, but with almost every appearance he challenges a media narrative carefully built up in print.

Despite all the AI and CA stuff, it's quite a thing to narrow the lead so much with almost the entire print media against him. Labour will still lose, but so far they've run a pretty good campaign. Crosby could learn a thing or two from the labour team if he gets another gig.

The discrepancies between these polls are so confusing.

But surely Labour can do better than a 3% gap. Smile

Motheroffourdragons · 31/05/2017 22:26

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 22:27

So it's basically stayed the same?

Allegedly YouGov was the worst at predicting in 2015 and had remain to wìn by 2% in EU ref.

Truth is however this time round I don't think anyone knows what's going on.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 22:30

James Morris‏*@JamesDMorris* 4m
This much riskier from yougov than their model. Bread & butter of their biz is representative samples. Must think race fundamentally changed

Sam Coates Times‏*@SamCoatesTimes*

PLUS! Tonight's YouGov/Times poll has 30% of people choosing Corbyn as better PM than May - highest yet

(Corbyn at 30% up from 28%. May down 2% from 45% to 43%)

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JustAnotherPoster00 · 31/05/2017 22:31

On why YouGov stick to their current methodology

ElenaGreco123 · 31/05/2017 22:36

I wish I turned the sound up on the debate now. I lurve Leanne Wood.

Watched the Handmaid's Tale instead. I can't stop crying. Very prescient.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 22:40

So it's basically stayed the same?

The YouGov one out yesterday / today which has the seat by seat is a forecast NOT a poll. Its modelled differently to reflect local trends. It was done over the last 7 days. Each day they are going to update with details from 7000 interviews.

In addition to that, the one tonight is a traditional normal poll. Done over 2 days. Different methodology. Different timeframe.

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woman12345 · 31/05/2017 22:41

@MichaelLCrick
Former BBC/ITN analyst David Cowling says Tory lead narrowed not by Cons vote collapse, but rise in Lab votes, esp young voters

Peregrina · 31/05/2017 22:41

She is 'someone like me' to many of those people.
She is not like me! I am older than her, but I think am younger in outlook.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 22:44

In addition to that, the one tonight is a traditional normal poll. Done over 2 days. Different methodology. Different timeframe.

I understand that.

The difference is this has 3% difference. Two others released today have 10 and 14 difference.

Something isn't right somewhere.

Valentine2 · 31/05/2017 22:57

I think Corbyn had some very strong moments today. I now really really like Lucas too.
There were many moments when Rudd literally destroyed Tory party side:

  1. When she tried to defend the arms sell to Saudis by saying it is good for the industry. That was a major fuck up.
  2. When she didn't say anything against Corbyn's "have you ever been to a food bank?" line.
  3. When she said "judge us on our record", I nearly fell out of sofa laughing, so did the audience.
I also think Corbyn and Lucas came our strongest. Farron did look like he can talk but I think his only hope is in an alliance with Labour and Green now. I think the biggest applauses went to Lucas and Corbyn and rightly so too. Lucas was literally the star of the night in terms of debate. Don't know what the chances of a progressive alliance against Tories would be but it will make perfect sense after I have seen the whole debate. I think that is probably the best bet against Brexit ( I think Corbyn saying he won't leave he single market says it all really; missed what Lucas said on this though).
RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:01

What I understand from the Huff post explainer is that the polls seem to all be saying roughly the same difference based on demographic weighing. The eventual polling figures they are coming out with however are to do with changes in intention to vote and how they split the don't knows. It also takes into account what turnout in different groups has been in the past.

It's how the information they are getting in is then being interpreted that different and is down to the individual pollsters.

In other words yougov seem to be saying that youth turnout is going to be higher than in previous years and there is a swing in the don't knows towards Labour. And other pollster don't think the effect is pronounced or important.

Given we are now a week out this might well reflect actual votes cast if postal. Lots of students perhaps would choose that option at this time of year. But again you might expect this to show up with other pollsters.

I noted on twitter yesterday that some one was commenting that some universities introduced voter registration into their registration process last year. Not all were doing this, but this might well have a positive impact on turnout.

There was also a surge in registration for young people at the close of registration.

Whether this will actually happen and young people get out on the day is another matter.

Big gamble from yougov.

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RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:08

@Election_data just tweeted a comparison of pollsters normal 'house effects' for each party 10mins ago.

I can't link as on my phone ATM.

Remarkably yougov house effect is to knock down labour 1% and the cons 0.3%!

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BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 23:08

piglet Polls of 1,000 people have +/-3% error. So 2% is quite acceptable

I read that YouGov used this larger 50,000 model to correctly predict the results of the EU ref and the US popular vote.
However, they were still developing the tech then, so this is the first time they felt confident enough to go public with it.

On 9 June they will either be the org with cutting edge tech, that all businesses want to use - or the org who need to develop their new tech more thoroughly, before any paying customers will touch it.

SwedishEdith · 31/05/2017 23:09

"I noted on twitter yesterday that some one was commenting that some universities introduced voter registration into their registration process last year. Not all were doing this, but this might well have a positive impact on turnout. "

Ah, that will account for why some people (students) have 2 polling cards. Bit of scope for abuse - who's cross-checking a proxy vote at home and an in-person vote at university constituency?

Charmageddon · 31/05/2017 23:10

I think Corbyn saying he won't leave he single market says it all really

I'm sure he said he will leave the single market.

He just thinks he can get 'full access to it' is all, whilst stopping FoM - which he can't do.

HashiAsLarry · 31/05/2017 23:11

Amber Rudd gave the 'coalition of chaos' line out at the end yet I don't think, shouty over each over as it was, didn't show that. To,e they seemed so similar that it showed a progressive alliance really possible.

Which, given brexit it going to happen whoever gets in, seems vital to me.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 23:12

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/31/theresa-may-abandon-strategy-attacking-jeremy-corbyn/
Theresa May to abandon strategy of attacking Jeremy Corbyn

Theresa May is to abandon her strategy of attacking Jeremy Corbyn as she urges voters to join her on a “great national mission” to deliver a successful Brexit.

Oh has she worked out nothing is sticking and positive messages work better?

In the Torygraph too.

That's actually hilarious it's taken so long. Shall I be May's communications advisor? I'm way ahead of your team of professionals.

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Peregrina · 31/05/2017 23:13

Ah, that will account for why some people (students) have 2 polling cards.

This isn't new. I had two polling cards more than 40 years ago as a student. Mind you, my Dad was the Returning Officer so knew the rules. In Parliamentary elections I voted in the place I was in - although in those days the rules about postal votes, (not sure about proxy votes) were much tighter.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 23:13

The one sure result on 9 June is that one or more polling orgs will be farting in embarrassment and one or more will be smug
The question: which is which

Who has chosen the correct weighting ?
Because their raw data looks very similar

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 23:16

Actually, they could all be embarassed with one result: a Corbyn win !
(I'd have to dig out a chocolate hat to eat if that happens)