Westministenders: Theresa's Common People

[RedToothBrush]

She came from Oxfordshire she had a thirst for knowledge
She studied geography at Saint Hugh's College
That's where politics
Caught her eye

She told them that her husband was loaded
The press barons said "In that case have a rum and coca-cola"
She said "Fine"
And in thirty seconds time she said

I want to look like common people
I want to do whatever common people do
I want to eat like common people
I want to sleep like common people
Like you

Well what else could Fiona and Nick do
They said "We'll see what we can do"

They took her to a supermarket
I don't know why
But they had to start it somewhere
So it started there
They said pretend you've got no money
She just laughed and said
"Oh you're so funny"
They smiled "Yeah”
Well we can't see anyone else smiling in here

Are you sure you want to live like common people
You want to see whatever common people see
You want to eat like common people
You want to sleep like common people
Like me

But she didn't understand
She just smiled and held Trump’s hand

Order that benefits get the chop
Tell them all to get a job
Promise to bring back the grammar school
Pretend you don’t think them a fool
But still you'll never get it right
'Cause when you're laid in bed at night
Watching the news talking about building the wall
All have to do is call your mates to fake it all

You'll never live like common people
You'll never do whatever common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
Whilst you blame it all on the EU
Because that’s all you can do

Sing along with the common people
Sing along and it might just get Brexit through
Laugh along with the common people
Laugh about leaving the EU

It’s the most stupid thing that you will do
Because you think that it is cool
You’ll call them a ‘lying foreigner’
But don’t say we didn’t warn you
You’ll regret saying we are better off out
'Cause everybody hates a benefits tourist

It doesn’t matter if you can’t do the math
With all those pockets that you grease
You’ll win the vote in Bath

You will never understand
How it feels to live your life
With no meaning or control
And with nowhere left to go
You are amazed that they exist
And wish they were all white
So you tell ‘The Big Lie’

Get THE flat above THE shop
Cut your hair and get THE job
Trick some mugs and hire some fool
Pretend you are not really cruel
But still you'll never get it right
Instead you're plotting late at night
About which ‘cockroach’ will take the fall
All have to do is call your mates to fake it all
Yeah

You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
As we plan to leave the EU
Because there's nothing else left to do

But ‘moan’ about how we don’t want to leave the EU.

OK, I'll remove the snideness ..

Do you really believe that? Because I haven't contributed a single thing to it. Unless of course you mean that simply being citizens of the West automatically makes us "contributors"

WTF do you think your taxes go ?

Irrespective of what you may or may not believe, or support, your taxes - whether by earning or spending - are going into the machinery of government that is carrying out bombings and drone operations in which innocent people are being killed weekly.

Yes, there were plenty of Germans who did not support or endorse Hitler. But that didn't save Dresden.

"Not in my name" was the strapline of the Stop the War coalition. Which is all very well. But one of the characteristics of democracy is that we all have to own the outcome regardless of whether we agree with it or not.

Bit philosophical, but when you live in a democracy, can you ever completely separate yourself from the actions of your government? I don't know. I know that people try to (hence banners that read "not in my name" etc).

Cross post with Lurking!

Unless of course you mean that simply being citizens of the West automatically makes us "contributors"
Unlike all those children in Syria et al, they were actively contributing to wars of course .

So paying my taxes - which are taken from me under penalty of law, remember - has made me a "contributor" to violence in the Middle East? That's some pretty attenuated moral causality there, almost homeopathic in its diluteness.

I agree 100%. But, it's not me you have to convince. It's the people who will carry out atrocities who do believe it .

Delurking to remind people on this thread that not everyone who lives right next to where this damned lorry park is proposed to be voted Leave.

I don't have figures for Stanford, but 62% of Shepway (the council area containing Stanford, Folkestone and Romney Marsh) voted Leave. We have quite a high elderly population, and there is a correlation there - there's a lack of jobs, there's a feeling that the prosperous port, traditional seaside entertainment and businesses have been replaced by regeneration through art that people don't understand. It's quite a common opinion that the Channel Tunnel was a bad thing for Folkestone amongst long term residents. I think Roger de Haan is marvellous - but he's a hate figure for many people. That's the downside of gentrification, even if the person (and in this case, it really is one man) is trying very hard to mitigate the effects, someone always loses.

It is a town split down the middle - I love it, it's beautiful, and there's so much going on, but the arty professionals who live here operate in a completely different world to a lot of the other residents. The two halves of the town live side by side, but just cannot understand one another. It mirrors the Leave/Remain divide in so many ways, and it is really sad.

Well obviously it's the governments who have taken that sort of decisions.
But then we have elected said governments and they are (supposedly) representing our ideas. We've put them into power which makes us responsible of their actions. After all, we also have the freedom of expression in the West and we could have massive rallies etc and force the governments NOT to attack Syria etc... (or not bring them into power)

I think it's essential to see that it's our responsibility as a citizens to keep government in check but also to acceotvthat when you vote for xxx, you dint get to cherry pick their policies and you give them a mandate for all of them.
And yes that makes us, as individuals, responsible too.

Besides, I think that the reasons why ISIS are attacking Britain or France or Belgium are much more complex than just 'your politic in the ME' TBH.

But you do need to ask yourself as to why people who are British (or french etc...) are becoming radicalised... And again, I'm not sure that looking at that would make easy reading for everyone.

I know this is random tangent, (and is also very dark, sorry) but I have often wondered, when thinking about the ethics of nuclear retaliation, that maybe retaliation against a democracy is more ethical than retaliation against a totalitarian regime.

Irrespective of what you may or may not believe, or support, your taxes - whether by earning or spending - are going into the machinery of government that is carrying out bombings and drone operations in which innocent people are being killed weekly.

That's odd.

I presume you're referring to our current ops?

I've not seen anything, anywhere about the UK killing innocent people on a weekly basis.

What are your sources for this?

LurkingHusband

Thanks for setting out your view at length, and I'm aware it's one that has a certain currency on the left. But I still find it deeply problematic.

Yes, there were plenty of Germans who did not support or endorse Hitler. But that didn't save Dresden.

This is particularly disturbing. Sure, it's an analogy, and analogies are not exact. But it implies that IS is as morally justified in attacking our civilians to carry out their goals as we were to destroy German cities for the purpose of saving the world from Nazism. These things are not morally equivalent - did you mean to imply they were?

Second, you could apply that logic to our military operations in the ME - at the moment, we don't use our heaviest, most indiscriminate weapons to destroy IS-held cities, precisely in order to minimise civilian casualties. If we did, the conflict would be over in weeks if not days. But using your Dresden logic, why should not supporting IS save the civilians in those cities?

Your moral clarity isn't quite all you think it is, or rather you seem to apply its strictures against only one side - ours.

Armed police in the centre of Cardiff just now. I suppose we have to expect it now .

But you do need to ask yourself as to why people who are British (or french etc...) are becoming radicalised... And again, I'm not sure that looking at that would make easy reading for everyone.
Especially those who cannot grasp the concept of our colonial past

There's far, far more to it than our colonial past, or the more recent past for that matter.

Thanks for purposely missing the point there charmageddon

Who said we were applying moral strictures to only one side? You are making an assumption - and an unfair one at that.

So-called IS is a reprehensible organisation. I've not seen anyone denying that. They want to try to sow discord. As someone who is non-religious, I'd even suggest that it is all to do with power (as many religions appear to me to be) but I recognise that not everyone would agree with that. In their case, I don't think it is to do with faith - I think it is a very dangerous form of brainwashing.

What I have seen in considered discussion as to why they seem to have such fertile ground amongst certain groupings. I'm not even going to say Muslims as it isn't Islam. Cults (of all religions) prey on the vulnerable.

I remember hearing on expert on the radio a couple of years ago saying that many of these youths are going to Syria/Turkey/Libya are actually buying "Islam for Dummies" type books, because they weren't "devout". Aggrieved yes, but devout no. They may later claim to be - but there were other reasons why they went.

We (yes, on this occasion I do mean we) have a responsibility to try to understand and reduce the reasons for the disaffection.

But anyway, we should be getting back to Brexit....

CallmeCordelia: I do feel sorry for the Remainers in Kent - and those Leavers who voted that way because they didn't realise we were inevitably voting to leave the single market (if we were going to stop FoM) and the inevitable consequence to the ports.

Getting back to brexit, or the election even...am I right in thinking that the conservatives have now retreated on 2 manifesto promises before the election has even taken place. I'm pretty sure that this is not normal. How can we trust someone to keep promises once they are elected when they keep changing them every few days

Conservatives backtrack on £60m for primary school
schoolsweek.co.uk/conservatives-back-track-on-60m-for-primary-school-breakfasts/

Your moral clarity isn't quite all you think it is, or rather you seem to apply its strictures against only one side - ours

I missed my claim to moral clarity. But I did describe Mondays horror as an atrocity, and for the avoidance of doubt I have no support for anyone on any side who uses violence to further their aims.

we don't use our heaviest, most indiscriminate weapons to destroy IS-held cities, precisely in order to minimise civilian casualties

I'm not really sure what to make of that ? So civilian casualties are acceptable because we're only using toy bombs ? I'll save your outraged rebuttal by saying I don't for a moment think you meant that, but (once again) there may be some who do see it that way.

Have you seen "Eye in the sky" ? It's a load of twaddle in lots of ways, but it does highlight the moral dilemmas facing us, as well as those we seek to neutralise.

Sorry that should read "Conservatives backtrack on £60m for primary school breakfasts". Somehow lost a word there

So paying my taxes - which are taken from me under penalty of law, remember

You say this, but there have been plenty of people over the years who felt strongly enough and were prepared to go to prison rather than comply with something they felt was morally wrong.

You say this, but there have been plenty of people over the years who felt strongly enough and were prepared to go to prison rather than comply with something they felt was morally wrong.

^ This.
I see no point in even beginning to discuss the role our country played in Afghanistan to start glamourising jihad.
I think Mid East acted like an incubation chamber or catalyst, depending on what era you look at, but it was actually Afghanistan where this all started and we are totally complicit in there. We do have blood on our hands as a nation.

By "this all started", I meant the current wave of popular jihad.

I can't forget how po faced we were about the Russians meddling, unsuccessfully, in Afghanistan.