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Brexit

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2017 22:39

Theresa May has declared war on the EU. She is going to be a ‘bloody difficult woman’ after she got caught out by a highly predictable leak.

Apparently, the EU are trying to rig an election she seems almost dead cert to win. They deliberately timed the leak to interfere with an election May decided the timing of. May was not supposed to be at the dinner, but after she announced the election she decided that she had to get in on the act for some reason. Wildly speculating here, but could this be because she wanted the political mileage herself?

No it wasn't a preplanned strategy. Don't be stupid. That would suggest they had the foggiest clue and a plan. Nope, the war declaration was an opportunist damage limitation exercise, used to maximise political capital.

She has now even further alienated the EU. It seems difficult to conceive how any deal will be done. Instead it looks like the election is trying to set us up to crash out. Whether the ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ happens to make the 3 page Tory Manifesto remains to be seen.

This would leave EU nationals and British national aboard in legal and social limbo.

There is also a feud building over the Brexit leaving bill, which is steadily climbing. We can not progress to the second stage of Brexit without resolving this. Again, this seems unlikely.

Thirdly, a settlement with Ireland is a top priority for the EU, and plans are being drawn up to make allowances for any potential United Ireland. This is a subject that is still to be talked about on any level really. May has been much more interested in the fate of Scotland and battling with Nicola Sturgeon.

That’s the thing. May is like the playground bully who goes around going “Do you wanna scrap ?, Do ya? DO YA?” and generally throws their weight around and most of the time gets their own way as a result. The trouble with the strategy is when the bigger kid comes along and thumps the bully, for being a cocky little shit and doesn’t like their kid brother getting picked on.

The trouble is that May is setting it up, to try and make it look like the poor little Britain has been picked on to her parents, so they go around accusing the big kid of all sorts rather than admitting their little darling is a nasty little shit.

It’s not going to end well is it? You can’t help but feel that at some point they’ll all end up in the Headmasters office and the WTO/UN/International Courts will rule against us for being a bunch of dickheads. No doubt May, will stick to character, hold a grudge and demand to leave them or say they have no authority over the UK.

That or we really will end up declaring war on Spain over Gibraltar. By accident of course. Probably to keep the ConKip party together and avoid a split.

Rule Britannia. Britannia rules. Erm, not a lot these days.

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Kaija · 09/05/2017 17:25

So this bringing back fox hunting nonsense. Is it delusionally optimistic to hope this is like a reverse Blair/Iraq manoeuvre, where he promised a ban in return for support for an invasion, and now May is promising a repeal to her crazy rightwingers in return for simmering down about hard Brexit?

Kaija · 09/05/2017 17:36

Seriously though this media control is pretty scary. Straight from Trump which was straight from Putin.

Everytimeref · 09/05/2017 17:39

Mirror reporting that the CPS are going to say whether they will be prosecuting over election fraud this week, before the deadline for candidates.

lalalonglegs · 09/05/2017 17:53

I thought the NIck Clegg webchat was pretty good - he took on why he supported the rise in tuition fees which I suppose is what is meant by trust issues. He seems a credible person and not a bot - his answers appeared genuine, for the most part. It made me a bit nostalgic for 2010 Blush.

I hope that Mirror story about the CPS is true Everytime. It's astonishing how the story has disappeared from view.

Cailleach1 · 09/05/2017 17:55

The very first I heard about Emmanuel Macron was in a newspaper article in 2016, which had the end of the Le Touquet agreement as a stated aim of his. That was the first thing I read about him (and only aim I remember).

Interesting from 'The Telegraph' today. "The last article of the treaty grants the two signatory powers the option of unilaterally abrogating it “at any time”, simply by informing the other party in writing, via diplomatic channels. There would however be a two year delay before the change came into effect." Now, the UK gives £80million per annum for security etc. I'd imagine the whole area suffers from the situation, though. That money is just firefighting the situation for France.

If the UK has to take back it's own border, they will in turn have to try to send people back to Turkey etc. as I presume France will say "talk to the hand, we are not the first safe country entered". People who are not allowed to stay. The UK would have a lot more to discuss with Turkey. Maybe the £80million will be diverted to cover the new personnel they would have to employ. It was interesting to see a BBC report in the last couple of days about boat loads of people crossing the med from Libya being rescued by a charity, without mentioning that the UK had blocked the EU budget because of the British purdah due to the election. This budget would have allocated money to try to prevent people from making the attempt to cross into Europe.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/09/le-touquet-treaty/

The agreement was signed in February, 2003 to come into force in 2004. This was before the Iraq Invasion which was March 2003. And well before the other risings and bombings in the Middle east and North Africa which have displaced people and created the present crisis. I believe it is argued the invasion of Iraq in 2003 by the USA and the UK at least contributed to the creation of the subsequent turmoil and instability in the area.

France were against this invasion. "On 20 January 2003, French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin declared "we believe that military intervention would be the worst solution" Now, I presume France are no angels either, but it is ironic that the subsequent refugee/migrant issues have become their problem, rather the UK's who were one of the Iraq invading forces, because of the LeTouquet Agreement.

I know it is not an EU issue. But the relationships will possible change ever so slightly. Enough to not go that little extra. Maybe. Anyways, the agreement was signed in a different climate and without the anticipation of amount of migrants/refugees.

I know people are probably going to get cross with me. But if you were to think about it dispassionately..

After all, Theresa May said in her speech to the Republican Congress about 'A future that sees us take back control of the things that matter to us - things like our national borders and immigration policy'. Macron would only be helping her realise her ambition.

taytopotato · 09/05/2017 18:03

TM will bringing back fox hunting as long as it's Liam Fox.

taytopotato · 09/05/2017 18:04

emm. I mean It's ok as long as it's Liam Fox

BiglyBadgers · 09/05/2017 18:18

So how come there is allowed to be multiple votes on fox hunting, but only one on brexit? Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 09/05/2017 18:29

(Times paywall) Corbyn refuses to say if Britain would leave EU under Labour

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/corbyn-vows-to-overturn-britains-rigged-economy-dcs6gftj3

"Jeremy Corbyn today refused six times to say whether Britain would definitely leave the EU if he is elected prime minister on June 8.

The Labour leader was asked repeatedly by the BBC if, regardless of whether the government secured a Brexit deal, he would commit to taking the UK out of the bloc if he came to power.

He expressed confidence that he would negotiate a good deal, but declined to answer the question outright."

< I'm confused & bewildered. wtf is Labour policy ? Confused
Anyone in the Labour Party know ?
Does Corbyn know ? >

"Yesterday BuzzFeed News reported that Mr Corbyn had said he would carry on as Labour leader regardless of the election result.

“I was elected leader of this party and I’ll stay leader of this party,”

Asked about the remarks today
“No I told them [BuzzFeed News] I would carry on as leader because we’ll have won the election by then.”

< So both the 2 main party leaders are delusional Confused
What have we done to deserve this ? >

BigChocFrenzy · 09/05/2017 18:35

The Tories may get over 50% of votes cast

If so, that gives them a mandate for anything they want, really.
Once you give a govt that sort of mandate; it's a blank cheque.

(Times article above) "Yesterday a poll by ICM put the Conservatives on 49 per cent of the national vote share, up two percentage points on last week, and Labour down one point to 27 per cent.

"It is the largest lead ICM has recorded for the Conservatives since 1983."

< all the polls seem to be agreeing Tory lead is like 1983 - which was also for jingoistic reasons >

So, one reason to vote even if you are in a totally safe seat for one party:
if you don't want every policy the Tory right always wanted, but never dared try.
Brexit is their once in a lifetime excuse for all pain.

Your vote counts

BiglyBadgers · 09/05/2017 18:38

And let's not forget bigchoc that the lib dem leader has only just decided that being gay is almost certainly not a sin. It is just differing levels of disaster right now.

BiglyBadgers · 09/05/2017 18:43

We have spoken... apparently..

Mumsnetters still hate Nick Clegg - even if they do find him sexy
www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/05/mumsnetters-still-hate-nick-clegg-even-if-they-do-find-him-sexy

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2017 19:02

Phillip has been recruited for the One Show to make May look less Robotic. He's human. He's there to deflect from her.

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RedToothBrush · 09/05/2017 19:10

Baker: Have you ever give in to the Spin Doctors?

May doesn't answer the question. Just goes on about a time that it was said she was reported as looking after her baby....

She hasn't given into the Spin Doctors. She just doesn't answer difficult questions!

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RedToothBrush · 09/05/2017 19:13

This is all about Phillip.

Not Theresa.

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BluePeppers · 09/05/2017 19:13

Cailleach I'm convinced that France will ask to revoque that agreement.
I have t heard anyone in France talking about any money that the UK is giving the France to help and keep the frontier.
But they all know about the way immigrants 'made themselves at home' in the Jungle and the ensuing issues when said area has been flattened a few months ago.
They do know about the constant issues with the UK refusing to process the immigration status of children and they rarely like an humanitarian crisis involving children, even less right in front of them.
And they do remember the talk from the UK 'sending the army there' to sort out the issue (yep saying that they wanted to send the British army onto french soil was a great move Hmm).

This is one of those situations where the UK has managed to wind people up quite a lot and this will be the dominating factor in the decision. I'm not sure that money given by the UK will have any major impact.

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2017 19:17

Baker is asking about 'Vote for May' rather than the Conservatives. How comfortable are you with Presidential manner.

She goes all Strong and Stable.

Baker's Crappy link: Banksy art criminal damage or art PM?

She replies its not her 'cup of tea' whilst pulling a very awkward face.

More off the cuff stuff like that Baker. It caught her off guard.

Questions have obviously been vetted, wording is very particular.

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HashiAsLarry · 09/05/2017 19:17

This remind me.
Hope patty's extraction went well Flowers

Bearbehind · 09/05/2017 19:24

He's much more personable than her.

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2017 19:31

Eurovision Semi Finals tonight! Time to dust off the blue flag with yellow stars....

I think we all know this year will be null points but I

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pointythings · 09/05/2017 19:43

He's much more personable than her.

That's setting the bar pretty low though....

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2017 19:46

Its like one of those couple where you go, 'WHY is he married to HER (or him). He's far too good for her'

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Cremolafoam · 09/05/2017 20:08

(Follower of this thread. )
I notice that the Labour manifesto is being announced as MattBakerer makes TM and hubby look back at their wedding photos. All very sickening, and not unrelated I fear.
We all know Corbin won't be sitting on The wan Show sofa anytime soon.

Cremolafoam · 09/05/2017 20:09

Corbyn, excusez-moi

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 09/05/2017 20:11

I'm afraid I couldn't watch this. I tried to, but Matt fawning under glaringTheresa's death stare made me feel all icky.

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