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Brexit

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2017 22:39

Theresa May has declared war on the EU. She is going to be a ‘bloody difficult woman’ after she got caught out by a highly predictable leak.

Apparently, the EU are trying to rig an election she seems almost dead cert to win. They deliberately timed the leak to interfere with an election May decided the timing of. May was not supposed to be at the dinner, but after she announced the election she decided that she had to get in on the act for some reason. Wildly speculating here, but could this be because she wanted the political mileage herself?

No it wasn't a preplanned strategy. Don't be stupid. That would suggest they had the foggiest clue and a plan. Nope, the war declaration was an opportunist damage limitation exercise, used to maximise political capital.

She has now even further alienated the EU. It seems difficult to conceive how any deal will be done. Instead it looks like the election is trying to set us up to crash out. Whether the ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ happens to make the 3 page Tory Manifesto remains to be seen.

This would leave EU nationals and British national aboard in legal and social limbo.

There is also a feud building over the Brexit leaving bill, which is steadily climbing. We can not progress to the second stage of Brexit without resolving this. Again, this seems unlikely.

Thirdly, a settlement with Ireland is a top priority for the EU, and plans are being drawn up to make allowances for any potential United Ireland. This is a subject that is still to be talked about on any level really. May has been much more interested in the fate of Scotland and battling with Nicola Sturgeon.

That’s the thing. May is like the playground bully who goes around going “Do you wanna scrap ?, Do ya? DO YA?” and generally throws their weight around and most of the time gets their own way as a result. The trouble with the strategy is when the bigger kid comes along and thumps the bully, for being a cocky little shit and doesn’t like their kid brother getting picked on.

The trouble is that May is setting it up, to try and make it look like the poor little Britain has been picked on to her parents, so they go around accusing the big kid of all sorts rather than admitting their little darling is a nasty little shit.

It’s not going to end well is it? You can’t help but feel that at some point they’ll all end up in the Headmasters office and the WTO/UN/International Courts will rule against us for being a bunch of dickheads. No doubt May, will stick to character, hold a grudge and demand to leave them or say they have no authority over the UK.

That or we really will end up declaring war on Spain over Gibraltar. By accident of course. Probably to keep the ConKip party together and avoid a split.

Rule Britannia. Britannia rules. Erm, not a lot these days.

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woman12345 · 07/05/2017 21:10

Embarrassing. GraceGrape. I am glad he's the face of British fascism, it's our pro EU secret weapon. Smile Keep at it Nigel.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2017 21:10

Similarly, I would expect Macron to support continued CAP to French farmers, because that's popular among French voters

He might ditch the agreement to let the UK process asylum seekers / migrants in Calais, instead of Dover - if that is popular in France

He'll do what the French want as much as possible, because he'll have to do some very unpopular things to try to get the French eceonomy on track.
iirc, about 56% of French GDP is public spending, which imo is nearly at communist levels, like Cuba.

btw, Le Pen's economic policies looked very far left to me, those I read.
Fascism is always a mix of left & right wing populism - she looks like she'd have been as friendly with the USSR as she is with Russia now

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 21:12

Faisal Islam is referring this English language interview with Macron:monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

Britain must understand that our interest in the medium to long term is to have clear rules. So if Britain wants to trade with Europe it has to choose a model, such as the Swiss, Norwegian or Canadian. We have to accept that there are losses. But it’s the British who will lose the most. You cannot enjoy rights in Europe if you are not a member – otherwise it will fall apart. Europe is what has enabled us since 1945, in an unprecedented way, to preserve peace, security, freedom and prosperity in our continent. The British are making a serious mistake over the long term. [Foreign secretary] Boris Johnson enjoys giving flamboyant speeches but has no strategic vision; the turmoil he created the day after Brexit proves it. [Former leader of Ukip] Nigel Farage and Mr Johnson are responsible for this crime: they sailed the ship into battle and jumped overboard at the moment of crisis. Theresa May has handled it but what has been happening since then? On the geopolitical level as well as on the financial, realignment and submission to the US. What is going to happen is not “taking back control”: it’s servitude.

'Crime'

Our foreign secretary is regarded as a criminal by the new President of France.

Bodes well.

(It will be interesting to see if there is a reshuffle in June...)

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Bearbehind · 07/05/2017 21:13

Is that your best answer optional?

Are you really not going to bother addressing my question and hope no one notices?

Hasn't it occurred to you to question why she wanted it kept private?

The brainwashing astounds me.

HashiAsLarry · 07/05/2017 21:17

Surely if it were that private TM could have shown the signed secrecy agreements.

LurkingHusband · 07/05/2017 21:17

Even people in prison don't have to pay for their own food

Want a bet ? People wrongly convicted have had board and lodging deducted from their compensation. It was such a scandal that even the Tories had to do something about it ... they effectively abolished compensation for wrongful conviction.

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 21:17

Isn't the whole problem with May this idea that such important issues should be private rather than transparent. If she was more transparent she'd be less vulnerable to nasty EU 'telling lies'.

Then when she did happen to have a meeting behind closed doors perhaps that would be respected more by the nasty EU.

May's problem is she is desperate to hide being inept. You can't hide it forever. It will come out eventually...

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illegitimateMortificadospawn · 07/05/2017 21:19

Coffee isn't a native British beverage. It's tea that Optionrationale should be smelling.

Unless we've annexed Ceylon, tea isn't either. Wink Short of alcoholic beverages, I'm not sure we have any home grown hot drinks.

squoosh · 07/05/2017 21:20

It will have to be mead.

lalalonglegs · 07/05/2017 21:21

Badders - a few commentators have said that TM will soften once she has her increased majority but, apart from thinking it's quite sinister to court the public by promising the hardest of hard Brexits in order to have a mandate in Brussels only to drop that idea once the mandate has been delivered, where is the evidence that she is not hell-bent on all-out Brexit nihilism? God knows, I'd really like to believe that the current nightmarish campaigning and tub-thumping is all a charade but...

optionalrationale · 07/05/2017 21:21

Today 21:13 Bearbehind
Is that your best answer optional? Yes
Are you really not going to bother addressing my question and hope no one notices? No and couldn't give a shit

Hasn't it occurred to you to question why she wanted it kept private? I am sure you will enlighten me.

The brainwashing astounds me. I hope it doesn't cause further problems with you bladde control

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 21:23

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*
...less negatively, Macron econ adviser authored Brexit plan to allow UK to have/eat freedom of movement cake in "Continental Partnership"
... when I met him was very well aware of intricacies of British politics and Blair impact on left in particular. Cd say he was Anglophile

Verhofstadt's vision for the EU is for reform with an 'inner core' and an 'outer ring' of countries.

Macron is set to be part of the EU's ALDE grouping with Verhofstadt.

Expect serious talk of reform coming from France. Macron needs to, to reduce problems with France.

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BiglyBadgers · 07/05/2017 21:27

I'm increasingly thinking once the Tories are back in the far right swivel eyed loony stuff will be toned down...they will keep on saying the right things to keep the brexiters happy til then

This is pretty much exactly what people said about Trump. Many voted for him believing the myth that it was all just campaign rhetoric and wasn't he clever to appeal to the extreme right to win. He would, they reasoned, of course become a sane president once he got into power. This did not happen. It will not happen with May. Absolutely nothing in her history suggests that she is anything other than a rightwing authoritarian nut who will do and say whatever she feels will keep her and her friends in cash and power. I know we all want to believe that every one is sane and reasonable deep down, but on some cases this is just not true.

woman12345 · 07/05/2017 21:28

@afneil

Looks like loser Le Pen still got about 11m votes -- and about twice the share of the vote her father got in 2002.

Sad this^ I used to like Neil, he's been a state of bonkerhood since about 3am on November10th.

What have the British media been instructed, one wonders.

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 21:31

Tea can be grown outdoors in the very south of the UK in Cornwall. There is a company that is doing so commercially.

Coffee is a lot more sensitive to climate. It can not be grown in the UK outside green houses which makes it pretty much commercially unviable.

So, yes. 'British' Tea exists.

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Bearbehind · 07/05/2017 21:32

optional you are really not helping your cause here, in fact you're looking more than a bit of a fool.

woman12345 · 07/05/2017 21:33

I agree Bigly and it suits the real power brokers to have an inept PM as it suits them to have Trump. The travel ban, the ACA abolition, the impeachment threats, the Russian links would have felled a POTUS in normal times.

How would they get what they want if they were using some one clever?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2017 21:34

The EU negotiators are required to report back to the EU Parliament - in public - and 27 govts will be receiving full copies.

It will be impossible to keep negotiations secret, the way May seems to want

Personally, I'd much rather May, as our own PM, would keep the British public informed
Failing that, I suppose we have to rely on Barnier, Juncker and European newspapers Sad

It probably illustrates how secretive UK govt normally is, that it causes so much outrage - war talk - when the EU merely reports what's happening.

Remember, Juncker gave the interview in German, to a German (conservative) newspaper
If he'd wanted to interfere in the UK GE, I'd have expected an interview in English with the Guardian or even the Mail on Sunday

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 21:34

englishtea.org.uk/tregothnan_english_tea.html
Tea

I know far too much useless shit.

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RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 21:34

englishtea.org.uk/tregothnan_english_tea.html
Tea

I know far too much useless shit.

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illegitimateMortificadospawn · 07/05/2017 21:36

Tea can be grown outdoors in the very south of the UK in Cornwall. There is a company that is doing so commercially.

You are, of course, correct RTB. If I recall, some of it is grown on Duchy of Cornwall land. No more than enough to keep a tiny % of the population in tea after the shit has really hit the fan, but it's good to know the London-based oligarchs and our Majesty & Chaz will be kept supplied.

Peregrina · 07/05/2017 21:37

So, yes. 'British' Tea exists.

We know this though, don't we? Andrea Leasdom said that we were going to export it. Still climate change, which I think she denies, will extend the growing area. So much to look forward to. Who will pick the tea, I ask myself?

Badders123 · 07/05/2017 21:37

Sigh
Yeah

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 21:39

The Welsh Tea Valleys.

Its all part of 'The Plan' for Brexit. This is why Theresa May wants to prevent tourism there.

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Peregrina · 07/05/2017 21:39

Remember, Juncker gave the interview in German, to a German (conservative) newspaper

I assume that they thought no one in the UK would read it. I don't think my rusty O level in German would have been up to the task. Pity that someone leaked it in the UK.