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Brexit

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2017 22:39

Theresa May has declared war on the EU. She is going to be a ‘bloody difficult woman’ after she got caught out by a highly predictable leak.

Apparently, the EU are trying to rig an election she seems almost dead cert to win. They deliberately timed the leak to interfere with an election May decided the timing of. May was not supposed to be at the dinner, but after she announced the election she decided that she had to get in on the act for some reason. Wildly speculating here, but could this be because she wanted the political mileage herself?

No it wasn't a preplanned strategy. Don't be stupid. That would suggest they had the foggiest clue and a plan. Nope, the war declaration was an opportunist damage limitation exercise, used to maximise political capital.

She has now even further alienated the EU. It seems difficult to conceive how any deal will be done. Instead it looks like the election is trying to set us up to crash out. Whether the ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ happens to make the 3 page Tory Manifesto remains to be seen.

This would leave EU nationals and British national aboard in legal and social limbo.

There is also a feud building over the Brexit leaving bill, which is steadily climbing. We can not progress to the second stage of Brexit without resolving this. Again, this seems unlikely.

Thirdly, a settlement with Ireland is a top priority for the EU, and plans are being drawn up to make allowances for any potential United Ireland. This is a subject that is still to be talked about on any level really. May has been much more interested in the fate of Scotland and battling with Nicola Sturgeon.

That’s the thing. May is like the playground bully who goes around going “Do you wanna scrap ?, Do ya? DO YA?” and generally throws their weight around and most of the time gets their own way as a result. The trouble with the strategy is when the bigger kid comes along and thumps the bully, for being a cocky little shit and doesn’t like their kid brother getting picked on.

The trouble is that May is setting it up, to try and make it look like the poor little Britain has been picked on to her parents, so they go around accusing the big kid of all sorts rather than admitting their little darling is a nasty little shit.

It’s not going to end well is it? You can’t help but feel that at some point they’ll all end up in the Headmasters office and the WTO/UN/International Courts will rule against us for being a bunch of dickheads. No doubt May, will stick to character, hold a grudge and demand to leave them or say they have no authority over the UK.

That or we really will end up declaring war on Spain over Gibraltar. By accident of course. Probably to keep the ConKip party together and avoid a split.

Rule Britannia. Britannia rules. Erm, not a lot these days.

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Cailleach1 · 07/05/2017 18:18

There was an article in the Spectator a few days ago about the gov't getting their departments to make an assessment of the effects of walking away with no deal. To show to the EU they are serious about this action. It also said they were considering publishing this. Mm. How come they won't publish the plan they are considering which doesn't mean walking away from everything with no FTA.

I think May's decision is ideologically based. No ECJ. Therefore not even Euratom membership can remain. Also, now if you even question the advantages or try to analyse this, never mind disagree with it, you are against the interests of the country. Saboteurs and Separatists. If you're not with the Brexiteers, you are agin the country.

The parliamentary committee with DD is just so worrying. When Benn asked about the open skies agreement between US-EU, Davis said it wouldn't cover them as it stands . What does that mean? Does he think the EU will rip up all their agreements and regulations to accommodate a non member? In the negotiation guidelines, they basically say that the EU agreements are for EU members only. Euratom works very well for supply and safety. What are the nuclear power stations going to do now? What is the plan? Is there a plan?

They say the treasury report was 'project fear'. It didn't figure in the full range of associations that the UK would have to be taken out of because the ECJ is May's ideological bete noir. I think people need some inkling that there is a plan B.

Cailleach1 · 07/05/2017 18:31

Farage has a propagandist article in the Irish Times saying Ireland should leave the EU. Saying incorrect things like the UK gave Ireland an interest free loan after crash. No, the 400million interest on this loan has been paid back and the rest is due be paid back by 2021. It was given to prop up certain institutions which would have caused collapse back in the UK and things like pension funds would be lost. it was to protect the UK's own interests and came with an interest rate. Many people believe that the state should never have taken on the debts of private banks. It should never have been made into sovereign debt.

He also says the Irish are Eurosceptic because they voted against two treaties. No, when the issue of things like a threat to Irish neutrality was addressed and protected, people felt assured enough to be able to vote yes to the treaties.

Jeez, he is like an itinerant Goebbels now.

The Irish Times usually issue corrections when inaccurate information is published. Wonder when it will be addressed.

BiglyBadgers · 07/05/2017 18:31

How come they won't publish the plan they are considering which doesn't mean walking away from everything with no FTA

I'm not absolutely convinced they have one Confused

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 18:36

France election exit polls at 7.00pm.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/green-party-make-official-complaint-10374677
Green Party make official complaint to BBC for 'disproportionate' coverage of Ukip in local elections
The Green Party won 40 seats in Friday's local election. Ukip won just one, but the Greens say Ukip got much more coverage

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/07/britain-calls-war-broker-battle-brussels-brexit-gets-nasty/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
Britain calls in war broker as battle with Brussels over Brexit gets nasty

I think this article is for the person saying that May has not declared war....

We have recruited an international war negotiator. So say the Torygraph...

www.freemovement.org.uk/uk-eu-cannot-easily-agree-eu-citizens-rights-uk-vs-eu-law/
Why the UK and EU cannot easily agree on EU citizens’ rights: UK vs EU law

This is a useful explanation over the problems over EU rights / EU citizens in the UK.

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woman12345 · 07/05/2017 18:56

@spectatorindex 2m
: French election exit polls show comfortable Macron victory

woman12345 · 07/05/2017 18:57

Le Monde joins FN boycott

As many polling stations closed (some, particularly in the big cities, will remain open for another hour), France’s newspaper of record, Le Monde, has announced that it too will boycott the Front National’s election evening event in the Bois de Vincennes (see post at 17.19)pm:

Formidable French press

mathanxiety · 07/05/2017 19:00

Waiting for those corrections too, Cailleach.
Itinerant gobshite.

mathanxiety · 07/05/2017 19:00

(Not you! Farage...)

HPFA · 07/05/2017 19:04

Projected result: Macron 65.5 Le Pen 34.5

Mistigri · 07/05/2017 19:04

65.9%

The mistifamily has just cracked open the bubbly

EmilyAlice · 07/05/2017 19:05

Hurrah. 😀

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 19:06

The Lib/Cons pledged over 5000 more midwives in 2010. They still have not reached their target. I think we are still some 3000 short of that target. In 2015 they pledged more GPs by 2020. This goal is going swimmingly, with less GPs now than there were in 2015.

Now they pledge 10,000 more mental health staff by 2020. At a time when so many EU citizens are in limbo and leaving in their droves. When they have not got any money behind the scheme because they are not going to raise taxes.

This is total fantasy. Even if they do manage to fill posts, do we think that we have 10,000 extra staff who are properly trained who we can just recruit within the UK?

6700 people have lost their jobs in the field since 2010. But will they just want to walk back into mental health? These people will have new jobs. If they leave those jobs and return to mental health, then you've got a gap somewhere else then... (not to mention, how many of these were EU citizens?) Plus there is still a significant gap there. Can we realistically train enough people to fill the difference?

This pledge is effectively running to stand still. We should be doing it as a matter of course, not because it sounds good on an election manifesto. Plus the reality is its not a great leap forward at all, and is in fact little more of a reversal of the last few years, minus the embarrassing U-turn publicity.

And don't even get me started on the Mental Health Act.
The 'plan' (hey can't wait to read that white paper) is utter bollocks.

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prettybird · 07/05/2017 19:06

Re French elections on a Sunday: I think the very fact of going to Mass means that while you are out, you can go and vote. Smile

Not sure about the history though.

Mistigri · 07/05/2017 19:06

Usually the initial estimates are conservative, so it might go over 66%

Mistigri · 07/05/2017 19:08

Funny tweet I saw earlier said that the French no longer go to mass on Sunday, they go to vote and then they pray.

mathanxiety · 07/05/2017 19:08

The 'war negotiator' stuff is all for the benefit of the UKIP-Cons and UKIP-Labour voters in the upcoming election.

woman12345 · 07/05/2017 19:09

It's a win Smile we're next!

woman12345 · 07/05/2017 19:09

Wine Misti family

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 19:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39837199
Amber Rudd won't say if immigration target to stay

......................

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RedToothBrush · 07/05/2017 19:10

www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy?CMP=twt_gu
The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked

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squoosh · 07/05/2017 19:11

👍🍾🇫🇷

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2017 19:12

Farage is definitely in another galaxy
Polls in RoI show support to stay in the EU is around 85%
All indications are that they would blame the UK, not the EU, if Ireland suffers from Brexit.

The RoI have done some excellent lobbying to bring the Irish border to be one of the 3 issues (expats, border, calculating the bill) to be settled before trade talks.
They really are an example of punching above their weight in terms of influence

Peregrina · 07/05/2017 19:13

It's a win we're next!

What, for Macron? I thought that LePen was the certainty and that Frexit was on the cards. Oh dear, I must have fallen for the guff in the Daily Heil and Daily Excrement.

Cailleach1 · 07/05/2017 19:13

That article about a mismatch of rights is interesting.

"The EU is not asking for the UK to bow to the jurisdiction of the CJEU in a general sense or for evermore or for future EU citizens who come to the UK after Brexit, just for the jurisdiction to continue for a limited, finite group of people who had already made their homes in the UK."

I know I keep 'banging on about it" a la Isabel Oakeshott. However, you have people in Northern Ireland who do not have to identify as British at all. Under the Good Friday Agreement, they can identify as solely Irish and therefore EU Citizens. There are more of them being every single day. So not a finite group of people. It is just I have heard nothing about how anything could be dealt wrt NI. It is as if the intricate situation doesn't exist. The walk away scenario will also create problems there. Whichever way you turn there are going to be problems in relation to NI.

Exit poll shows 66/34 for Macron. The dominoes are going to have to start from somewhere else.

Mistigri · 07/05/2017 19:15

Thanks woman. I'm sharing my bubbly with my 16 year old, who is celebrating her parents still being welcome in France.

I just said "we won't have to go back to the UK now" (j/k obviously) and DD said "you wouldn't go to Britain you'd go to Germany".

Merkel also got a good result in the German regional election tonight too, confirming that you can welcome refugees and still win elections.

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