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Brexit

Westministenders: Up Shit Creek without Wifi.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/04/2017 22:12

Theresa May is being held hostage.

There is mounting evidence that all is not as it seems at CCHQ. It makes you don your tin foil hat and ask who is in charge.

Theresa May was a Remainer. She suddenly abandoned that when she became leader. Her proclamation of what would follow next seems directly at odds with her actions. This is not her fault. This is her plea for help and way of telling the outside world that she is a prisoner of Brexit.

At first it seemed like perhaps she had been locked up with Brexiteers for too long. She seemed to be developing a survival strategy which seemed totally irrational to outsiders. The signs of intimidation everywhere though. Instead of criticising those who did this, May joined in with them or was complicit in her silence.

Things are now taking a sinister turn. After repeatedly saying ‘No Election’, May crumbled and called one. She has now not been seen in public since. Instead she is being wheeled out at closed events to the party faithful. They are being dressed as mixing with the people but they are no such thing. The plebs in attendance are set to ‘mute’ or locked out completely.

Behold the coming of the May-Bot. She seeks to ‘prevent tourism’ in Wales. She now no longer knows which town she is currently in. (Much less have a plan for Brexit). She accuses an organisation set up to use its numbers to get better deals, of doing what it is supposed to, except she calls this ‘ganging up’.

May is not transported in a bus. Oh no. Instead she travels by the Bond Villian’s choice of transport; the helicopter.

More worrying still is the mantra ‘Strong and Stable’ repeated as many times as possible. It is almost as if, if she says it enough she might start believing it. She certainly has got her party members brainwashed and acting as if they were Zombies. Who needs ‘Spice’ when you are a Conservative? They ‘Believe’…

The ploy is to hoodwink people into voting for May instead of the Tories. CCHQ have removed Conservative branding from literature and campaigning in the North. The party are still too toxic, but May apparently scores well especially against Corbyn. Ironically however negatively I think of Corbyn he does display something May increasingly seems incapable of: humanity.

Many people might think of May as some sort of dictator figure. Its true. Every vote for her strengthens her hand. But not for Brexit negotiations. Mainly because Brexit is without merit or reward. Not unless you hold power. This is part 2 of the grab for it.

This is May’s power paradox. SHE is not powerful. She isn’t persuasive. She isn’t a healer of divides. She relies on authoritarian measures to get her way. This isn’t a sign of her personal power, but a sign of her personal weakness. She is sly and sneaky in her methods rather than compelling others to come along with her. They are doing so more because they dislike the alternative in Corbyn less.

She is not stable. She has lurched from one drama to the next, and has repeatedly been forced to back down from what she wanted. Nothing says ‘stability’ and ‘good leadership’ like appointing Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary. The lady is not so much for turning and leading, but is already staggering around dizzy whilst blindfolded playing pin the tail on the donkey. And Christ she’s got a lot of them in her Government. Including the numpty who decided to do a live event and broadcast it in an area with no wi-fi. Mind you, that is soon to be the entire country. Or what’s left of it.

She had said she had a mandate for Brexit and did not need this to be approved by the country as she was getting on with the job. This is why we are having a General Election to give her a mandate…

Not only that, but there is a lurking question here that should not be forgotten. Who is pulling May’s strings and making her dance as her actions are not natural? Every puppet show has puppet masters behind the scenes of the stage, hiding in the shadows.

They will dispense with their toy once she has outlived her usefulness like every good baddie.

Is she the one we should be most fearful of?

Hold on tight this is going to be a very bumpy ride over the next two years. Just how many casualties will be sacrificed on the altar of Brexit?

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HPFA · 01/05/2017 11:11

For anyone who isn't depressed enough:

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-negotiations-will-be-brutal-nasty-and-potentially-short-1.3066989?mode=amp

The bizaare thing is that you're still getting all these messages on social media on the grounds of "well, we can just walk away" as if this is somehow a punishment for the EU. Yet it seems that there is now a strong lobby within the EU for doing just that! They have probably calculated that the positive benefits of all the businesses that will leave the UK will outweigh the costs to their exporters.

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2017 11:44

Toby Young‏ @toadmeister
Disappointing how many Remainers are eager to take the EU's side in Brexit negotiations -- the more hard line EU is, the more they like it.

Ian Dunt‏*@IanDunt*

Or, in other words: they will imply Remainers are unpatriotic when the things we warned would happen eventually happen.

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RedToothBrush · 01/05/2017 11:55

What I don't understand is why the media seem to be giving May such an easy ride. Why are we having to find this stuff out on Twitter?

Who owns the press? Or is in charge of its funding?
Much of what is going on is a battle between new media and of old media. There is a power battle between the owners of both.

I say this phrase a lot, but 'who is controlling the agenda' is a very important one. It is noteworthy that twitter etc gives power to the individual in a way that has never happened before too. It doesn't matter what your social class is, you can have influence and have you voice heard. Twitter can help control the agenda.

This is a threat to the established centres of power.

This power is also being used by those with money, who are not part of this hierarchy of power because their views have been culturally to the extreme and now what to take over that influence.

The reason we are not seeing it in the mainstream is because someone doesn't want you to see it, plus old media takes longer - especially with cuts to the number of journalists and how they are put under pressure for deadlines.

Twitter is faster because its instant and many journalists are doing the same as you - they use twitter to find the story and then pass it on to the wider audience. You are just by passing a level of media and becoming citizen journalists in a sense by sharing here.

The media is closely linked to democracy, which makes what happens ever more important. Brexit is inherently a constitutional matter and therefore democracy. The use of media is key.

This is why I say, no matter what happens, keep on talking, keep on plugging. It is important.

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prettybird · 01/05/2017 12:09

Going back to the conversation we were having in the last thread about the widening of university access, I have to acknowledge that as someone who in the past was dismissive of "Mickey Mouse" degrees - and including Media Studies degrees amongst them - I have to say that RedToothBrush's adept analysis has totally reformed my view Grin

Thank goodness for people who study to see through the bullshit! Grin

And I'm grateful that in the Scottish education system, Modern Studies is a compulsory subject up to the end of S2 or S3 (depending on the school). At least pupils are taught the basics in understanding our political systems and media.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 01/05/2017 13:43

Just in case anyone is unaware, Die FAZ (pronounced "dee fats" with the emphasis on the second syllable) is (or at least used to be) a super-serious newspaper full of densely written articles in a small font and little to no pictures. Think FT minus the fun bits.

Mistigri · 01/05/2017 13:47

The FAZ article is obviously straight from the horse's mouth ie a deliberate (and politically-motivated) leak, but nevertheless IMO likely to be substantially correct.

Astonishing that May didn't realise that this would happen. The British people will be kept informed via the German press ...

LurkingHusband · 01/05/2017 13:48

Confirming the parallel universe theme ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39770328

Brexit: No 10 'doesn't recognise' account of Juncker dinner

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/05/2017 13:56
Grin
Badders123 · 01/05/2017 14:01

twitter.com/paul_haine/status/858935395811241985

squoosh · 01/05/2017 14:28

'The British people will be kept informed via the German press ...'

Only those who want to be informed. Sadly many people are determined not to be.

HPFA · 01/05/2017 14:42

Toby Young‏ @toadmeister*
Disappointing how many Remainers are eager to take the EU's side in Brexit negotiations -- the more hard line EU is, the more they like it.

Ian Dunt‏*@IanDunt*
Or, in other words: they will imply Remainers are unpatriotic when the things we warned would happen eventually happen.*

RTB Beat me to it.

I actually have a ticket to hear Ian Dunt speak in Oxford. Should be a cheery evening.

I'm puzzled at the influence Remainers are supposed to have over the EU negotiating position. Are we suppose to have hotlines to Juncker? And what is this complete inability of Brexiteers to appreciate that now we're no longer members of the EU they no longer have any obligations to give us a good, or indeed any deal?

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2017 14:58

Times Political Editor (paywall)
May renews threat to walk away from EU without a deal

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/may-renews-threat-to-walk-away-from-eu-without-a-deal-2wk3hfnw7

"The critical briefings came after a dinner attended by the prime minister, Mr Juncker and Michel Barnier, the lead Brexit negotiator, which Brussels figures claimed went “very badly” because of misunderstandings.

This is disputed by senior Tories."
< Hmm if one side at talks think they've gone badly, then they have >

"During last Wednesday’s dinner, Mr Juncker’s aide produced a copy of the 2,000-page EU-Canada trade deal to underline the complexity of the task.
Mrs May suggested that this was an inappropriate comparison.

“We’re starting from an entirely different point, so I think that actually us negotiating a comprehensive free-trade agreement will be easier, should be easier, and that
we can do that within the timeframe we’ve got.”

< May seems genuinely ignorant / deluded about the complexity of these trade negotiations
This is because she does not tolerate any views she does not like.
She never allows business or civil service experts to give her any unpleasant facts >

"EU negotiators thought that a deal was on track until the dinner in Downing Street.

The prime minister tore up assurances given by Oliver Robbins, the Whitehall mandarin in charge of Brexit, that Britain accepted that trade talks would come after the divorce bill was settled.

Brussels sources claim that, during dinner, Mrs May contradicted his promise that the principles of the withdrawal settlement would be decided before a future trade agreement."

< The Uk also used the GE as an excuse to block an EU budget increase, most of which is on border security, migration and shared police intelligence.
The EU is pissed at how the GE is blocking normal work >

"Martin Selmayr, Mr Juncker’s chief of staff, who attended the dinner, called off informal talks with Mr Robbins.
“Now, we’ll have to apply full purdah reciprocity.

Talks with UK, formal or informal, will start only after 8 June”,
he tweeted on Saturday night.
< Hmm yes, they're pissed >

Senior figures in Brussels are also confused as to how Britain will approach the negotiations.
A government source said:
“We have always said that the prime minister will lead the negotiations, supported by the secretary of state and senior officials.”

Brussels figures said that she was “not going to be coming on the Eurostar every week to an office in the Berlaymont to meet Mr Barnier.
That is not how the negotiations are going to work.”

Another official present at the dinner said:
“We don’t know who Britain’s lead negotiator is or who it is we call.
In Michel Barnier we have a negotiator who has the full support of all 27 EU leaders.
We are ready.”

< So that will be nearly a year wasted by the UK govt and still as delused and ignorant as on day 1.
GE slogan: Chaos R Us
This is NOT what a "safe pair of hands for Brexit" looks like >

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 15:07

we can do that within the timeframe we’ve got.”

Given that in ten months, all Theresa May has managed is a poorly drafted request to invoke A50, how does she expect to achieve anything of substance in two years?

This is NOT what a "safe pair of hands for Brexit" looks like
I think that, you think that. Hundreds of clued up thoughtful people think that, but the Scum and the Heil are screaming that it will be fine, and that will be all that matters to May.

missmoon · 01/05/2017 15:15

On the issue of the papers, I had been thinking about this a lot. Why do the Telegraph, Sunday Times, Daily Mail, Express etc support a hard Brexit? What is in it for them / their owners? It just doesn't make any sense. Most individual journalists are quite left wing, at least, the ones I've met (including a couple of Express writers who cheerfully told me that their paper is shit!).

prettybird · 01/05/2017 15:27

Ian Dunt has just retweeted_ ChrisGiles: FT comment of the day on @davidallengreen excellent blogs"__
"When my 11 year old daughter spectacularly belly-flopped into the swimming pool, her 9 year old brother immediately said: That is so Brexit'"

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2017 15:34

MissMoon
A journalist, ordinary mc job, has little in common with the oligarch owners of their media,
who want low regulation countries they can exploit & loot.

Many journalists are just earning a living, the best way they can. Many workers have to just suck up an employer or boss they despise.

e.g. Uk media:

Torygraph - The Barclay brothers (£6.5bn tax exiles)

Express - Richard Desmond (£2.5bn, UKIP donor)

Fail - Viscount Rothermere (£1bn, owned through offshore trusts) of the "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" family

Sun & Sky - Rupert Murdoch (Australian $11.7bn, serial manipulator of governments in several countries)
"In the UK, the PM listens to what I say. In the EU, they don't"

btw, every single one of them is a fully paid up senior member of the global establishment they are pretending to attack.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2017 15:37

Pretty Grin Let's use that phrase when we see bellyflops of all kinds : "That is so Brexit !"

woman12345 · 01/05/2017 16:36

www.faz.net/aktuell/
Link fur die FAZ.
Danke schon Eeeeeowwwfftz
Juncker bei May Das desaströse Brexit-Dinner sounds even better in German!

Its readership will be soaring, just like New York Times has since their rapey fascist got in.

missmoon · 01/05/2017 16:39

Thanks BigChoc. But what do these people gain from a hard Brexit? Their money is already offshore, how is a hard Brexit going to make them more money? The "establishment" has a lot to lose from Brexit, which will badly affect the banks, most businesses, universities, cultural institutions, etc. Who gains from a hard Brexit? Who is driving the agenda, and why are they so powerful?

woman12345 · 01/05/2017 17:01

Who is driving the agenda, and why are they so powerful
Some one is planning on a lucrative few decades, and it's not going to be us.
And in France, too? Is that agenda being driven? Le Pen owes a lot of money, like Kushner, to our Russian friends.
Apathy could drive Le Pen vote up, like Lico was saying earlier.

RhuBarbarella · 01/05/2017 17:07

I think what the main players gain from Brexit is to be seen in the Naomi Klein concept of the Shock Doctrine. We still have state schools, we still have the NHS, we still have some sort of welfare system. There still is stuff to flog off, money to be made and games to be played. I really think some people are not happy until we are all securely split between the lucky but deserving and hardworking haves and the unlucky but lazy and degenerate have nots. Out of sight, behind a wall, in an enclave.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2017 17:55

What can the oligarchs gain ?
Loot
The rich made fortunes from privatisations in the 1980s and 1990s.
The nhs hasn't been sold yet - just imagine, a whole new market of 60 million for private heath care.
Then there are all the prisons, the roads ....

And of course all the businesses they own in the UK, or plan to buy later, would be so much more profitable without that pesky red tape of workers rights:
maternity rights, disabled access, the right to strike, heath & safety
Low pay
Low environmental standards

"Britain Unchained ? "
" Vulture Capitalism Unchained"

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2017 18:49

Many journalists are just earning a living, the best way they can. Many workers have to just suck up an employer or boss they despise.

Journalism is a very competitive occupation. Many people took unpaid work to get the experience and many have had to work two jobs to make ends meet. Pay can be very low when you do have a job as a result. Plus permanent jobs can also be hard to come by - many writers are paid by the article as freelancers rather than being employees. This is even worse because so many media organisations are London based. (It will help the Guardian enormously if they move to Manchester which is being rumoured. I know a few BBC employees who moved up, and on the whole I think its been a very good think for the organisation and the country as a whole). The pressure to be ahead of competitors means increasing indepth articles are a thing of the past. And then there is the pressure of writing for click bait.

What do newspaper owners get out of it? Well I'm fairly sure many don't particularly like regulations which might oblige them to treat their workforce better for starters.

Prettybird thank you for you comments. I think Media Studies has lots of use outside journalism. Which is just as well as so many who study it don't manage to get a job in the industry.

www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/mps-warn-of-lights-out-scenario-in-northern-ireland-1.3067882?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
MPs warn of ‘lights out’ scenario in Northern Ireland
Committee stresses importance of proposed cross-Border electricity interconnector

Northern Ireland faces a potential “lights out” scenario in four years’ time unless work on a proposed £200 million (€236 million) North-South electricity interconnector begins as soon as possible, a group of UK and Northern Ireland MPs are warning.

The 14 MPs are also appealing to the UK government to be conscious of the “unique energy arrangements” on the island of Ireland and to prioritise Northern Ireland’s interests as part of its forthcoming Brexit negotiations.

No Deal is better than a bad deal huh? Trade covers the provision of electricity.

Election Data‏*@election*_data
Danczuk will stand as an Independent. Quite the thing.

He was suspended in 2015. I guess Labour will stand a candidate against him. That will screw up Rochdale and hand it to the Conservatives no doubt.

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RedToothBrush · 01/05/2017 19:33

www.ft.com/content/20b5f109-6b36-3b73-b321-6c8bd75108bb
Analysing the Juncker-May Brexit reports: a Twitter thread

David Allen Green reflects on the May - Juncker leak. Definitely a must read.

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*

interesting. Merkel in Jeddah trying to get stalled EU-GCC trade deal up and running again... near top UK list too:
english.alarabiya.net/en/business/economy/2017/05/01/Merkel-sees-EU-Gulf-states-making-progress-on-free-trade-deal.html
... yes, it is no coincidence that EU has been told by Germany to speed up trade deals with a variety of other countries, since Brexit

Think @dsquareddigest has smartest take on @FAZ - consensus markets view (that begot £ rise) & Brussels view -PM wd pivot after election..
... away from harder rhetoric, towards pragmatism and compromises on transition timing, ECJ powers, ££ etc.. Not what she said at the dinner
...Brussels/Berlin believe this as they genuinely cant believe UK would want to do something that they calculate will damage our economy...
.. or at least they did believe that until May dinner, so thats what explains the rhetoric around delusions, illusions and other galaxies..
... what does really matter right now, is the extent to which PM boxes herself in her manifesto, or has more flexible mandate to play with..
...eg will freedom of movement "end", will ECJ jurisdiction "end in Britain" and when? "By the end of Parliament"... by 2019?....
... eg2 will the Tory manifesto say that Britain "does not seek" to join the Single Market, or say "Britain will leave the the SM" ....
..will manifesto repeat "associate Customs Union" language from Lanc House, and yet guarante Britain free to do trade deals? By 2019? 2022??
...will manifesto feature a clear mandate from electorate to walk away from talks after two years? - binding in public if it gets rocky..
..extent to which such red lines feature will consolidate 50% plus UKIP 2015 voters now moving Cons, but risks alienating liberal Tories...
...anyway manifesto red lines on Brexit negotiation probably what this spat is all about, why Merkel commented, how @FAZ interpreted it too
Also well worth remembering that it was PM who invited Juncker to London, and now using reporting of dinner to say it proves need for S&SL..
Eg meeting originally a Barnier-Davis bilateral, cancelled after elex, turned into No 10 moment:
www.ft.com/content/033c5a46-2a5d-11e7-9ec8-168383da43b7
Number 10 looks to steer Brexit talks in Juncker-Barnier meeting

Guy Verhofstadt‏ @GuyVerhofstadt
Any #Brexit deal requires a strong & stable understanding of the complex issues involved.The clock is ticking - it's time to get real.

More trolling from Verhofstadt. He's not subtle!

Theresa May has been displaying her lack of awareness in Stockport today:
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/prime-minister-theresa-vows-spend-12971625Prime Minister Theresa May vows to spend £500m to help the homeless, during visit to Stockport
She spoke to the M.E.N. after we showed her our front page story which revealed how a community of homeless people was living in a tunnel

(Original story: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/its-manchester-2017-homeless-living-12968151 here)

Jennifer Williams‏*@JenWilliamsMEN*

T May speaking to MEN on homelessness today. Rough sleeping hasnt suddenly started, it's true. But it has gone up 10x in Mcr since 2010.
Quote from article: She went on: “Unfortunately homelessness has been with us under all shades of government. This isn’t something that’s suddenly started.
There were also 1,000 kids living in emergency temporary accommodation last year, double the year before.

I was in Manchester on Saturday myself. I go there every couple of months and have done for many, many years. It was by far the worst I've ever seen the problem. I was shocked in how much worse it was than just a couple of months ago and it was noticeably worse even then. DH commented on it without me prompting the subject.

May was invited to see the problem herself but declining saying she didn't have the time today...

Noticeable developments today:

  1. The BBC carrying the Juncker v May story as headline on evening news and on their website (If you talk enough about things on twitter, the BBC can't ignore...)
  2. May was forced to issue a denial about the story. She was not in control of the agenda.
  3. May held a press conference and it seems that she was not briefed on the questions in advance (but I'm not 100% on this but it certainly appeared that she was dealing with questions that were not necessarily easy).
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