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Brexit

Westministenders: Up Shit Creek without Wifi.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/04/2017 22:12

Theresa May is being held hostage.

There is mounting evidence that all is not as it seems at CCHQ. It makes you don your tin foil hat and ask who is in charge.

Theresa May was a Remainer. She suddenly abandoned that when she became leader. Her proclamation of what would follow next seems directly at odds with her actions. This is not her fault. This is her plea for help and way of telling the outside world that she is a prisoner of Brexit.

At first it seemed like perhaps she had been locked up with Brexiteers for too long. She seemed to be developing a survival strategy which seemed totally irrational to outsiders. The signs of intimidation everywhere though. Instead of criticising those who did this, May joined in with them or was complicit in her silence.

Things are now taking a sinister turn. After repeatedly saying ‘No Election’, May crumbled and called one. She has now not been seen in public since. Instead she is being wheeled out at closed events to the party faithful. They are being dressed as mixing with the people but they are no such thing. The plebs in attendance are set to ‘mute’ or locked out completely.

Behold the coming of the May-Bot. She seeks to ‘prevent tourism’ in Wales. She now no longer knows which town she is currently in. (Much less have a plan for Brexit). She accuses an organisation set up to use its numbers to get better deals, of doing what it is supposed to, except she calls this ‘ganging up’.

May is not transported in a bus. Oh no. Instead she travels by the Bond Villian’s choice of transport; the helicopter.

More worrying still is the mantra ‘Strong and Stable’ repeated as many times as possible. It is almost as if, if she says it enough she might start believing it. She certainly has got her party members brainwashed and acting as if they were Zombies. Who needs ‘Spice’ when you are a Conservative? They ‘Believe’…

The ploy is to hoodwink people into voting for May instead of the Tories. CCHQ have removed Conservative branding from literature and campaigning in the North. The party are still too toxic, but May apparently scores well especially against Corbyn. Ironically however negatively I think of Corbyn he does display something May increasingly seems incapable of: humanity.

Many people might think of May as some sort of dictator figure. Its true. Every vote for her strengthens her hand. But not for Brexit negotiations. Mainly because Brexit is without merit or reward. Not unless you hold power. This is part 2 of the grab for it.

This is May’s power paradox. SHE is not powerful. She isn’t persuasive. She isn’t a healer of divides. She relies on authoritarian measures to get her way. This isn’t a sign of her personal power, but a sign of her personal weakness. She is sly and sneaky in her methods rather than compelling others to come along with her. They are doing so more because they dislike the alternative in Corbyn less.

She is not stable. She has lurched from one drama to the next, and has repeatedly been forced to back down from what she wanted. Nothing says ‘stability’ and ‘good leadership’ like appointing Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary. The lady is not so much for turning and leading, but is already staggering around dizzy whilst blindfolded playing pin the tail on the donkey. And Christ she’s got a lot of them in her Government. Including the numpty who decided to do a live event and broadcast it in an area with no wi-fi. Mind you, that is soon to be the entire country. Or what’s left of it.

She had said she had a mandate for Brexit and did not need this to be approved by the country as she was getting on with the job. This is why we are having a General Election to give her a mandate…

Not only that, but there is a lurking question here that should not be forgotten. Who is pulling May’s strings and making her dance as her actions are not natural? Every puppet show has puppet masters behind the scenes of the stage, hiding in the shadows.

They will dispense with their toy once she has outlived her usefulness like every good baddie.

Is she the one we should be most fearful of?

Hold on tight this is going to be a very bumpy ride over the next two years. Just how many casualties will be sacrificed on the altar of Brexit?

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BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2017 01:09

The problem is: the JHA was May's "great victory" at the Home Office.

She's so proud of that, because it was the one thing she really achieved during all her years there - even though it was form over substance, it was great wrt party politics.

I fear she is indeed as ignorant as the Ultras - and most of the public - about the complexities of Brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2017 02:04

Do you want the blue pill or the dead pill?
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/04/28/week-in-review
< scary photo of TM there ! >

"strong and stable government" is a fantasy illusion of Britain's path for the last seven years

  • unless we set it in the context of a strong and stable housing crisis,
a strong and stable NHS funding crisis, a strong and stable social care crisis, a strong and stable rise in the national debt, a strong and stable sense of alienation among swathes of the country, a strong and stable surge in Scottish nationalism, strong and stable confusion over the future of Northern Ireland, a strong and stable departure from our main trading relationship, a strong and stable fall in the pound, a strong and stable torrent of twaddle to explain it all away.

"Strong and stable government - a pitch that only works because seven years of Conservative government have left the public craving strength and stability.
Vote Tory to clean up the Tories' mess Grin

"Speaking of twaddle, the latest gushing wave came yesterday, with May warning - or whining - that the remaining 27 EU members were "lining up to oppose" Britain in Brexit talks.
Who'd have thought it - a membership organisation defending the interests of its members?

But if there's one growth industry in Britain, it's a national sense of victimhood."

< yes and "victimhood" is as harmful for a country as it is for an individual - and as tiresome to friends >

Mistigri · 01/05/2017 06:36

I have come to the conclusion that the stress of being PM at this particular time in history has made May ill. I can think of no other explanation for the report in the Independent saying that she is accusing the SNP of "disrupting" the election (by behaving as an opposition and campaigning).

Does she seriously think no opposition should be tolerated? I genuinely think she has gone stark staring bonkers.

That FAZ article is fucking terrifying. I might send it anonymously, with a translation, to my company's emergency brexit committee just in case they haven't seen it. They had better get a move on with the new factory in Eastern Europe that they are planning.

PattyPenguin · 01/05/2017 07:00

If there is every likelihood of us crashing out with no trade deal, what is business going to do?

There may be a lot of individual leavers who believe they personally have nothing to lose and we'll do just fine. But there are people who run businesses who know that's not the case. Individually they are far fewer, but do they have the influence and contacts to try to influence the Government during the negotiations?

And what will they do if we end up with no trade agreement?

(If they move operations abroad, where possible, or shut up shop, will they too be branded traitors?)

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 07:18

But there are people who run businesses who know that's not the case. Individually they are far fewer, but do they have the influence and contacts to try to influence the Government during the negotiations?

I can't believe that they haven't tried to speak out already. I wholly believe that it will have fallen on deaf ears. Moving operations abroad is only permissible if you are a prominent Leaver like James Dyson. Anyone who voted Remain is most definitely a traitor.

Until either May does a complete U turn, which will piss off the Leave camp; or the Tories stab her in the back, which they will do when she outlives her usefulness. Then we will get some sort of change.

TheElementsSong · 01/05/2017 07:48

If there is every likelihood of us crashing out with no trade deal, what is business going to do?

Our brave visionaries are not going to listen. I caught part of the Peston interview and TM once again recited the "no deal is better than a bad deal" mantra - after a bit of shouting at the telly I just had to leave the room.

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 01/05/2017 07:56

See, this is what I don't get about Brexit. There are alternatives to "no deal is better than a bad deal"- We could all agree that stepping back from/suspending the Brexit processs to allow our govt to do more research and fully understand what is needed to do this properly whilst retaining a mid- to longer term aspiration of Brexit. Its got almighty clusterfuck written all over it and it take generations to unpick/recover from. I think we could at least be a bit more imaginative about the range of options available to us.

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 08:02

There are alternatives to "no deal is better than a bad deal"- We could all agree that stepping back from/suspending the Brexit processs to allow our govt to do more research and fully understand what is needed to do this properly whilst retaining a mid- to longer term aspiration of Brexit.

I think Theresa May could have done that when she first took over. Once she had decided that the only people she wanted to listen to were her extreme right wing, and that appeasing them was the only option, then I think she closed the door.

Now I think the only alternative is that she ceases to be PM. This could be when the Tories decide to stab her in the back, or if her health cracked up. Most PMs age rapidly in office, and recent ones have been younger than her, and as far as we knew, physically fitter.

woman12345 · 01/05/2017 08:13

May's visit to Lancashire today is an opportunity for nurses in uniform to collect for their food bank. That might be a useful visual to follow her around this campaign. (Or school kids in uniform next to newly redundant teachers, CAMHs workers and SEND teachers)

Remain alliance campaign in motion, slowly.
Guardian columnist Zoe Williams on what she sees as the benefits of a progressive alliance: Labour, Greens, Liberal Democrats, SNP, SDLP, the Women’s Equality party, all of these are on the same path

If Macron is at work, so should we be.

Badders123 · 01/05/2017 08:14

My only hope is that as she has already done quite a few U turns already that she could I turn on brexit
A faint hope but one I cling to

woman12345 · 01/05/2017 08:32

or if her health cracked up, it looks possible. Fiona Hill is apparently the gatekeeper insisting on afternoon naps. Despite the best laid plans with helicopters, trapped tenants, forest children's parties, strange door knocking campaigns, she's clearly well out of her comfort zone trying to talk to humans. Especially those from outside the confines of Marlow golf clubs.

The Juncker observations seem to be all over the place this morning, many of the DT's online articles seem to be of the shit hitting the fan variety. Even the BBC is covering 'strong and stable' as a joke and school weeks being shortened.

prettybird · 01/05/2017 08:42

Can someone who is better informed that me please outline what these fantastic opt outs are that TM negotiated when she was at JHA (and then opted back in)? Confused

BTW - my db (who I don't see very often) was very impressed that I knew about Non-Tariff-Barriers. (He'd only found out if them because of trying to do business from another EU country where he lives, to a non EU country). I told that that there was a fantastic thread online that was keeping me informed Grin

HesterThrale · 01/05/2017 08:56

Thanks woman12345 for mentioning the Zoe Williams article. It had some hopes to cling to:

'There are now 49 identified seats where the progressive votes combined could unseat the Tory, and a further 48 where a shaky Labour majority could be solidified. That kind of number-crunching is always an underestimate..... since it doesn't allow for contagion; when one seat shows itself capable of reaching agreement, it stirs up its neighbours and voters who previously wouldn't have bothered casting a progressive vote at all.'

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/01/sneered-but-progressive-alliance-win-election#comments

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2017 09:08

David Allen Green @davidallengreen
Brexiteers: May needs replacing, not defending, if the UK is to make a success out of Brexit.

The detail of Juncker-May dinner is worrying.

But as worrying is May just walked straight into it being leaked, like walking into a door.

Olly Buxton @ElectricRay
How could she have stopped that being leaked though?

David Allen Green @davidallengreen
Anticipated not stopped.

And are better prepared and briefed.

Simon Gardner @Simon_Gardner
Question. Where is the civil service in this?

Daw49 @Daw491
They can only advise. If Ministers really don't want to read briefs then what can you do...

Sounds a lot like Trump doesn't it? It illustrates a few very worrying things. It's not just that May is authoritarian, it's that she doesn't listen to advice or those advising her really are totally out of their depth / bonkers and that she wasn't expecting Juncker's leak. If she wasn't expecting that then she's going to be fucking crap at negotiations which she wants to handle personally.

I stick by what I said previously, she's either hostage to someone or stupid or gone plain bonkers.

The take away from her interviews yesterday (which I ended up watching twice because DH hadn't seen) was that she is utterly delusional about what being poor was. She flapped at the question about food banks and has no strategy for helping people like the homeless.

The trouble is that I have at least one very good friend (I get the impression he voted remain too) who is convinced it will all work out ok and we will be better off in the long run. He's educated and I'd generally say liberal leaning. We had a very adult conversation about Brexit but the issues he has with the EU are not really about the EU but related issues that won't be solved by just leaving the EU.

What struck me was it was beyond his comprehension to imagine it going catastrophically wrong. There is sort of a middle class comfortable blind spot where he clearly has no concept of hardship.

This is where I think until Brexit starts becoming a tangible disaster that support will continue and people will vote for the May-Bot who shouts 'integrate, integrate, integrate you will be deported'.

And the question is still there. If May does go, who takes over? Could it be worse?

I have to say, today is the first time I've seen David Allen Green show signs of outright panic.

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prettybird · 01/05/2017 09:14

Although it wasn't done via an alliance, that contagion is effectively what happened in Scotland. To mix loads of metaphors Voters began to smell blood, the ball started rolling and gained an unstoppable momentum.

You should have to believe! And be disillusioned with what you currently have. The challenge is that we had an alternative that we could see was working effectively in Holyrood. So we were able to vote for something rather than against it.

It's going to be more difficult in England and Wales Sad. But not impossible.

BiglyBadgers · 01/05/2017 09:38

I stick by what I said previously, she's either hostage to someone or stupid or gone plain bonkers.

What struck me was it was beyond his comprehension to imagine it going catastrophically wrong. There is sort of a middle class comfortable blind spot where he clearly has no concept of hardship.

Sorry to pick out bits from you post red, but I think these two statements are very much related. I think May comes from a very comfortable, middle class, middle England background. There is something almost colonial about her in that stereotype of the white English lady who is completely secure in her own superiority and the belief that England is special.

People like this have failed to grasp that we are no longer an empire, we really are not that important any more and we do not have a divine right to be given anything we demand.

NinonDeLenclos · 01/05/2017 10:13

It's horrific to have one's worst fears confirmed. Like the "smell of napalm first thing in the morning".

Now everything makes sense: the ditching of the single market and customs union - May simply has no grasp of what that actually means. The insistence on an FTA oblivious to the fact that will take 7-10 years.

She thinks she's dealing with protocol 36 & JHA opt-out.

Rollercoaster here we come: tally ho!

Peregrina · 01/05/2017 10:17

I think May comes from a very comfortable, middle class, middle England background.

Worse, I think she doesn't realise it. I get the impression that she thinks being a vicar's daughter that she would have met a cross-section of society. Not realising that, say, a vicar working in an inner city would have had a very different experience to her father.

woman12345 · 01/05/2017 10:18

It's a naice coup.
And it will be a red white and blue food shortage.
Old Jamie and Camilla could get wheeled out yet to persuade the proles to eat patriotic turnips.

I always knew that ignorance and cruelty was annoying, but now it's fucking terrifying.

Lico · 01/05/2017 10:19

Red and Bigly: so true.
I know so many people with these views in the UK.
This 'middle class blind spot ' attitude is not special to England though. It also applies to France where many voters will abstain on Sunday ,because , with Fillon out of the race , they feel that the election was stolen from them and that they are being forced to choose between bad (Le Pen) and good (Macron). Because of this manipulation, many will abstain which could have some dire consequences as Red's comment illustrates.

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2017 10:28

Alberto Nardelli‏*@AlbertoNardelli*
Whatever your position on Brexit deal, and posturing to one side, there are 4 underlying issues that should concern all:
1) N10 refusal to acknowledge difficulties/complexity. Those that raise these are shunned/isolated. This leads to incomplete/bad briefings
2) Referendum was a year ago. There is no detailed plan. A speech is not a plan. A declaration is not a plan. A soundbite is not a plan
3) Bad expectation management. If success is defined only by winning the World Cup even if you make the semifinal, it will be a hard sell
4) Soundbite diplomacy and vacuous lines. When there is little substance, you will eventually be exposed.

Ian Dunt‏*@IanDunt*

It appears my book significantly underestimated just how inept May and her team would be.

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Simon Cox‏*@SimonFRCox*

EU internal trade & external power are mutually reinforcing & depend on internal political cohesion. Bad deal for UK is not bad deal for EU.
EU27 clear: ltd economic harm to EU of end to EU-UK free trade is price worth paying to minimise risk of unravelling political cohesion.
Brits voted Leave bc thought elites wdnt defend their interests. EU elite now put citizens (not biz) 1st to minimise populist risk to them.

But, but, but GERMAN CAR MANUFACTURERS!

Look at this gem. During her visit to Scotland, journalists had to submit questions in advance.

Westministenders: Up Shit Creek without Wifi.
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Dumdedumdedum · 01/05/2017 10:42

My apologies if this has already been posted, I've had a quick scroll through and didn't find it. I find it makes for fascinating reading, though nothing really unexpected apart from May's breathtaking delusions: Forbes FAZ Jeremy Cliffe Tweets

prettybird · 01/05/2017 10:45

I had an argument with a few people on Facebook (not friends Wink they are all sensible - just random people commenting on a newspaper article) who were saying that there were NO benefits whatsoever to EU membership. Hmm

When I asked about Financial Passporting, Erasmus and the EHIC card (for starters), I got the answer "German cars" Confused

I gave up at that point Grin I value my forehead Wink

Kaija · 01/05/2017 10:54

I wish our leaver friends would come back and tell us why this is all going to work out fine. Have they all gone into hiding already?

NotDavidTennant · 01/05/2017 10:55

What I don't understand is why the media seem to be giving May such an easy ride. Why are we having to find this stuff out on Twitter?