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Brexit

Westministenders: Up Shit Creek without Wifi.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/04/2017 22:12

Theresa May is being held hostage.

There is mounting evidence that all is not as it seems at CCHQ. It makes you don your tin foil hat and ask who is in charge.

Theresa May was a Remainer. She suddenly abandoned that when she became leader. Her proclamation of what would follow next seems directly at odds with her actions. This is not her fault. This is her plea for help and way of telling the outside world that she is a prisoner of Brexit.

At first it seemed like perhaps she had been locked up with Brexiteers for too long. She seemed to be developing a survival strategy which seemed totally irrational to outsiders. The signs of intimidation everywhere though. Instead of criticising those who did this, May joined in with them or was complicit in her silence.

Things are now taking a sinister turn. After repeatedly saying ‘No Election’, May crumbled and called one. She has now not been seen in public since. Instead she is being wheeled out at closed events to the party faithful. They are being dressed as mixing with the people but they are no such thing. The plebs in attendance are set to ‘mute’ or locked out completely.

Behold the coming of the May-Bot. She seeks to ‘prevent tourism’ in Wales. She now no longer knows which town she is currently in. (Much less have a plan for Brexit). She accuses an organisation set up to use its numbers to get better deals, of doing what it is supposed to, except she calls this ‘ganging up’.

May is not transported in a bus. Oh no. Instead she travels by the Bond Villian’s choice of transport; the helicopter.

More worrying still is the mantra ‘Strong and Stable’ repeated as many times as possible. It is almost as if, if she says it enough she might start believing it. She certainly has got her party members brainwashed and acting as if they were Zombies. Who needs ‘Spice’ when you are a Conservative? They ‘Believe’…

The ploy is to hoodwink people into voting for May instead of the Tories. CCHQ have removed Conservative branding from literature and campaigning in the North. The party are still too toxic, but May apparently scores well especially against Corbyn. Ironically however negatively I think of Corbyn he does display something May increasingly seems incapable of: humanity.

Many people might think of May as some sort of dictator figure. Its true. Every vote for her strengthens her hand. But not for Brexit negotiations. Mainly because Brexit is without merit or reward. Not unless you hold power. This is part 2 of the grab for it.

This is May’s power paradox. SHE is not powerful. She isn’t persuasive. She isn’t a healer of divides. She relies on authoritarian measures to get her way. This isn’t a sign of her personal power, but a sign of her personal weakness. She is sly and sneaky in her methods rather than compelling others to come along with her. They are doing so more because they dislike the alternative in Corbyn less.

She is not stable. She has lurched from one drama to the next, and has repeatedly been forced to back down from what she wanted. Nothing says ‘stability’ and ‘good leadership’ like appointing Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary. The lady is not so much for turning and leading, but is already staggering around dizzy whilst blindfolded playing pin the tail on the donkey. And Christ she’s got a lot of them in her Government. Including the numpty who decided to do a live event and broadcast it in an area with no wi-fi. Mind you, that is soon to be the entire country. Or what’s left of it.

She had said she had a mandate for Brexit and did not need this to be approved by the country as she was getting on with the job. This is why we are having a General Election to give her a mandate…

Not only that, but there is a lurking question here that should not be forgotten. Who is pulling May’s strings and making her dance as her actions are not natural? Every puppet show has puppet masters behind the scenes of the stage, hiding in the shadows.

They will dispense with their toy once she has outlived her usefulness like every good baddie.

Is she the one we should be most fearful of?

Hold on tight this is going to be a very bumpy ride over the next two years. Just how many casualties will be sacrificed on the altar of Brexit?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
BiglyBadgers · 03/05/2017 19:25

That was to user...

Corcory · 03/05/2017 20:03

Bigly, The EU as an organization owns large amounts of property all over the world. We there for own a 27th of that property. And even more when you consider our % contribution when their were fewer members. Why wouldn't we be entitled to a proportion of the value of the property. That's what happens in a divorce settlement.

HashiAsLarry · 03/05/2017 20:10

John Prescott‏ @johnprescott
Today Theresa May went a step too Farage

Love Prescott, he always cheers me up on a cloudy day.

woman12345 · 03/05/2017 20:14

Smile thanks Hashi

prettybird · 03/05/2017 20:14

I'll remember that statement Corcory when Scotland negotiates her divorce settlement Grin

HashiAsLarry · 03/05/2017 20:17

Contrary to what some people seem to think the UK doesn't own a share of the EU. It's a member of it. You don't get a share of the golf club's property when you cease to be a member, despite your fee paying for its upkeep.

SwedishEdith · 03/05/2017 20:26

Surely (at the very least) it is unstatesman like to use a Downing Street platform to deliver another party political broadcast to an audience of millions?

I thought that was weird - like Churchill addressing the nation in wartime.

Even Tim Montgomerie is struggling Shock Grin

"This is irresponsible from Theresa May. Naked electioneering, not based in fact and only likely to make #Brexit negotiations trickier."

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2017 20:27

The EU is a union, not a marriage
The payments were membership fees to the union, not mortgage payments to buy property
The Uk doesn't own 1/28th of e.g. a bridge built in Poland, or an aid project in Africa.

From the HoL report, it looks the Uk could indeed walk away without paying the bill - and then face the political and trading consequences.

The EU would presumably take the UK to the International Court of Justice - the Uk as a UN member is bound by ICJ decisions, so can't ignore the ICJ.
That case would trundle along for years.

In the meantime, the EU would certainly refuse the UK any trade arrangements whatsoever. That's 45% of UK exports buggered.

The EU could also quite effectively block the UK in the WTO, e.g. objecting to its quotas. So the UK couldn't even trade on WTO terms around the world

Also, all those non-EU countries would be very cautious about making trade agreements with a U.K. that crashed out of its previous trading arrangements without settling up.

Remember, leaving the EU also means leaving the 80 or so bilateral and multilateral trade deals with other countries.
All those countries will want to negotiate tougher terms with the Uk than they enjoyed as part of a 28-member trade bloc.

Some former colonies are very eager to put the boot in to a vulnerable UK, both at the WTO and when the UK tries to negotiate with their trade bloc
(only about 6 countries in the world , e.g. N Korea, don't belong to a trade bloc. The UK will be very lonely, outside any bloc)

SwedishEdith · 03/05/2017 20:31

Badders "I am - genuinely - scared for my children's future.
For the first time in living memory I believe we have a situation where the children of a couple will not be better off than their parents.....
Both in social mobility and in aspiration."

I saw Keir Starmer speak recently and that's exactly the point he made.

Cailleach1 · 03/05/2017 20:31

As a lay person, I was gobsmacked at May's bit of propaganda. Along the lines of this.

They came to dinner and could see we were unrealistic headbangers who wanted to be indulged. The UK are entitled to a better, special deal. A la carte with no obligations. Insisting we could get all our chosen benefits through a 'deep and special' relationship. Code for cherry picking. Now they have said so many times that we couldn't do that. Bast*rds. That means they want us to fail. They won't treat us special, like. Therefore they will be the cause of our failing. It is their responsibility to make everything perfect for us.

They are insisting Brexit means Brexit. Out and pay any bill before you go. Unreasonable. Any consequence of our decision is their fault. It can't be ours. We want to burn the house down. The EU as well as our own.

This wasn't tough, it was peevish. And Farage is now annoyed the 'natives' have any say in Northern Ireland. Clue is in the name Nige. It is not Northern Britain. Those guys, Gove et al would simply love to tear up the GFA. It probably kills them that the Northern Irish can identify solely as Irish if they wish and can retain their EU citizenship. Also that this identity and the GFA is being recognised internationally. I think NI needs to be able to create normality. There was no care or oxygen given to it's unique situation in the referendum. Or after. Brokenshire is an apt name. I don't think anyone thought Villiers could be topped. However, the idea of a vote of 50% + 1 to keep it democratically British could just as equally apply to 50%+ 1 democratic mandate for a united Ireland. It can only happen if Ireland votes for it too. The UK leaving the EU is creating this crisis too prematurely. Churchill said 'We have always found the Irish a bit odd. They refuse to be English'.

I think when when Junker took out the FTA for Canada and the entry agreement for Croatia, May was not acting like triggering article 50 to leave and leaving meant their situation would apply to a non-EU UK. They couldn't possibly be treated as if they were non-EU. When they will be non-EU.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2017 20:32

Crikey, Pretty Scotland may own 1/10 of St. Paul's Cathedral, Buck House - and 1/10 of the City financial centre to pay for it all Grin

Badders123 · 03/05/2017 20:33

Fuck me
Why are we still having to explain we don't "own" 1/27th of the EU!!!
Read a book!
Read this thread!
The clue is in the name....European UNION
You pay to be a member and benefit from said union.
If you leave you pay your exit dues
It's not bloody rocket science won't be any of that here after brexit either

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 03/05/2017 20:38

Remember, leaving the EU also means leaving the 80 or so bilateral and multilateral trade deals with other countries.

I could weep at the stupidity of Brexit.

Speaking of Kier, I was interested in this recent Guardian interview pre-GE announcement. I'm a recent returner to these threads. What was the general verdict when it was published? He's not afraid to let his ambition show.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2017 20:45

May's furious aggression is desperation:

she's refused to hear negative opinions from business and civil servants
So that dinner was the first time she realised that the EU aren't going to give her a deal unless she caves in on all her red lines

So it's a choice between May and her govt being humiliated, or the economy being absolutely hammered
Clearly she's made her choice:

Whip up the electorate into patriotic fury
Then when the economic crash happens, blame the EU

She really has to whip up a lot of anger, because it has has to last through many years of economic misery.
If the electorate ever blame the Tories, they would be finished for a generation or more.

Cailleach1 · 03/05/2017 20:51

In fact, the issue of NI and the GFA may be what this smoke and mirrors is all about. Don't forget after the 2 hour brexit committee, Davis was unable to answer Mark Durkan's question about NI and the EU citizens there, by dint of their irish identity. Wasn't even a flicker of care that NI people were also EU citizens. I imagine they are furious it is one of the 3 things that have to be resolved before the other negotiations. They don't have to will or imagination in reality, I would suggest. They can't separately kick Ireland around about it. It will be part of the EU27 discussions.

They are quite happy to create divisions again in NI. Might is right. They want to leave the ECHR anyway and the GFA will be in their sights. Even on the BBC news channel now, they are just talking about eu citizens rights and the bill. Everyone is talking about other things. 'He said', 'she said', about the dinner. Where is the discussion about squaring the border in Ireland? And the rights of the Irish identity EU citizens in NI? Which will remain after the UK leave. Are the media told not to mention NI? One of the 3 issues is not being discussed at all. Can anyone find discussion of this by the UK?

Michael Dougan has tweeted that the PM's comments today are unhinged.

woman12345 · 03/05/2017 20:53

She's a hostage, both to girning DD and the boot boys and her need for a victim (re red's post at 19.01) Truly horrific what those defendants have suffered. 40 years ago they would have been amnesty international prisoners of conscience, if they were confirmed to have not been involved in any violence.

May seems unwell. The whole country is now collateral for her, and her idiotic little party, with its tiny membership. We're the hostages. The EU27 needn't care about her poxy election, or how big or small her majority is.

Chuka was in mine too whatwouldrondoSmile. It was awful watching him on channel 4, having to contort his response to support JC, and labour brexit.

But JC's response to May's 'episode' was at least human and statesmanlike.

The choice between him and her is more and more like the one faced by the French. Apathy is not really an option.

BiglyBadgers · 03/05/2017 20:58

My parents have been National Trust members for donkeys years. They must have paid for at least a room in a small manor house by now. I must remember to tell my dad to demand they return it when he ends his membership. I have always fancied a nice georgian drawing room. Grin

woman12345 · 03/05/2017 20:59

You're right Calleach1 , why DD looked so smug before the 'event'. Smoke and mirrors.
More on hard border and Baileys and Guiness.
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/apr/07/brexit-raises-spectre-dearer-guinness-baileys

HPFA · 03/05/2017 21:00

twitter.com/SimonFRCox/status/859824439999033344

The legal complexities on this thread will be beyond most of us but the end message is spot on -and pretty frightening.

herethereandeverywhere · 03/05/2017 21:05

I'm a long time lurker on these threads, thank you RedToothBrush. I might be putting this in the wrong place and at risk of slightly derailing the unpicking of May's Trumpian outburst about the EU and the GE today Hmm ... I happened upon this [measured, sane, balanced, some may even say optimistic] release from the EU today:

Fact sheet: europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-17-1183_en.htm
Press release: europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-17-1170_en.htm
PDF to download: europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-17-1183_en.pdf

It's a fact sheet and press release from the EU Commission published today. I've not had chance to read it in any detail but it seems good at first pass, although owe should not forget, this is just a proposal for negotiation. It really does seem that the EU is on the side of Ex-Pats, both Brits in Europe and EU-Nationals currently in UK.

BiglyBadgers · 03/05/2017 21:13

I like this bit fro the fact sheet here

Will you be transparent in the negotiations?
Yes, the Commission's aim will be to ensure full transparency so as to allow for informed public debate. This is why the Commission has made today's recommendation public.

May will not like that at all. I dont think she is a big fan of 'informed public debate' :o

Corcory · 03/05/2017 21:14

Well one minute we are told it is like a divorce settlement and it's NOT like being a member of a golf club! And now you are all saying it is like being a member of a club!!
I have never suggested we own a 28th of a bridge in Poland but surely we should own a part of the actual buildings and assets belonging to the EU in Strasburg etc. They can't have it both ways. They can't suggest we should be paying towards future pension payments of their employees for instance - you don't get asked that in a golf club or the NT. With any 'club' you of course pay your dues whilst you benefit. Prettybird I think you have a point with regard to Scottish independence, however there are quite a few UK gov. Depts. in Scotland and that would also have to be taken into account as well as the monies given to Scotland over the years from the UK coffers within the Barnet formula. I don't think anyone is suggesting we get rid of the Queen too so Buck house doesn't count.

woman12345 · 03/05/2017 21:15

Thanks herethereandeverywhere really positive docs. Smile
Calleach1, EU is at least on the case:
"NORTHERN IRELAND
What have you included in the recommendation concerning Northern Ireland?
The European Union remains committed to the Good Friday Agreement and will work towards minimising the consequences of the UK's decision to leave the EU on the peace process. This means looking at innovative and creative solutions in order to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland. This will be a priority in the negotiations".

Peregrina · 03/05/2017 21:18

So are we going to have to rely on the EU to find out what the UK's position is on N Ireland?

woman12345 · 03/05/2017 21:20

So are we going to have to rely on the EU to find out what the UK's position is on N Ireland

There feels like a mass Stockholm Syndrome mentality about all of this, when 26 miles over the channel there are human rights and free press.
EU Fact sheet reminds one that they still exist.