Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

I feel for you re your job loss and your unsympathetic family.

Btw, I didn't just mean economically beneficial.

I want £350 million per day extra for the NHS.

I want the Union to stick together.

I want the Good Friday agreement to survive.

I want Gibraltar to continue to be able to function.

I want more, better paid jobs for British citizens..

I want to take back control.

I want better weather.

I want to lose 5 kilos while still eating cake and drinking wine.

I want all culpable politicians to be held formally accountable for this mess.

One day there will be the mother of all public inquiries into the 'leave' campaign - not that this will be of any use to anybody.

Yy Figment, I want that too, and yesterday.

Also, for EU arts funding to be matched.

And for HM opposition to do some opposing.

And for politicians of all stripes to rediscover their conscience and backbone, and to start standing up for the national interest instead of running scared of the Daily Fail.

OP, do you have any aspirations for the government beyond 'do your best and I'll be happy'?

Do you actually have any 'red lines' of your own?

I often think that TM must sit back and piss herself laughing at the subservience of her followers.

They are so brainwashed they're just happy with whatever she decides is best for them.

It must be a glorious position to be in- play your tune and the muppets will just fall into line.

And believe me, as a life long Tory voter, those comments are not made lightly.

Do you have eyes in your head?

I'd vote Labour tomorrow, such is my disgust, except Corbyn is useless beyond words, so I'd have to vote LD

"I want it [Brexit] to be cancelled"

Good luck with that.

It won't be "cancelled", but it is very likely to end up looking much like remaining (but without the input into EU decusion making).

Check the last budget for extra money for the infrastructure projects that would be needed if we were really leaving the single market in less than 2 years. There was none (and even if there had been it would have been too little too late). "Associate membership" here we come (it will look just like now, except that Farage will lose his job in the EU parliament, along with all our other MEPs).

I get it... what you're hoping for MistiGrill is Brexit means Remain. I am sure Jimmy Fallon will double the number of LibDim MPs (to 17) on that platform.

I think Brexit means a form of remaining is what will actually occur.

The fantasies of leavers will not happen.

I want to leave the EU as soon as possible.
I want Remainers to accept the Leavers have reasons beyond economic ones for the way they voted.
I want FoM to cease
I voted leave because I believe immigration increased too rapidly. It certainly did in my area.
I want the British Government to make and uphold the laws in this country
I want to be free of the jurisdiction of the European Court.
I want to return to what we joined....the Common Market....with no political interference at all.
I travel all over the world. I do so as a British Citizen, not a citizen of some non existent country called the EU.
I believe TM and DD will secure a good deal for our country

PrettyBird
"Ireland received support in the early days"

Care to quantify this total "support" and how long the "early days" lasted for (I.e. what proportion of Ireland's membership of the EU you class as "the early days")?

Coppersulphate

" I want Remainers to accept the Leavers have reasons beyond economic ones for the way they voted."

I'm quite happy to do that, just leavers all tell us it wasn't about immigration, thanks for being honest.

The rest of your post ? Unicorns and rainbows.

Danny
"just leavers tell us it wasn't about immigration"

Correct. It might make you feel smug to characterise all Leavers as xenophobes and racists. But...

1. I am pro-immigration. With an aging population and falling birth rates we absolutely need immigration. But this should not mean we have to have uncontrolled and unlimited immigration.
2. It is possible to love Europe (the continent), the countries and people of Europe but hate the institution of the EU
3. The EU is flawed by design. If it had the same design principles as Asean, I would have been a remainer. ASEAN is all about fostering improvement through trade and economic growth. Member countries are required not to interfere in the sovereign affairs of each other.
4. The EU has a massive democratic deficit. It is one of few political institutions in which the Executive makes the laws and the Assembly approves them.
5. It is too damned big. We joined a trading block of 8 broadly similar economies. Today it is 28 widely different cultures, histories, values, approaches to economics and social issues.
6. The Eurozone is unmanageable with a monetary policy designed by and for the benefit of one member (Germany)
7. It is corrupt
8. It is slow
9. It is inefficient
10. It (mainly Junkers) could have avoided this whole situation if it had been willing to change

I get it... what you're hoping for MistiGrill is Brexit means Remain.

Are you dyslexic lol? (It's mistigri)

I'm not hoping for this outcome, which is guaranteed to disappoint everyone. I simply see no other credible outcome given the incompetence on display so far, the impossible timetable, and the failure to commit money and resources to basic planning and infrastructure development activities which are a prerequisite of any single market exit.

Colour me cynical, but I don't think May has any intention of leaving the single market in the near future, though she certainly wants you to think that she does. She is counting on extreme brexiters being too stupid/ignorant/blinkered to realise what she is up to.

I didn't say that all leavers at all, I just said leavers, that could mean a few, or all, or anything you take it to mean.

Many leavers say it wasn't about immigration because they don't want to admit that their votes are based on prejudice so they look around for something else.

Like your other reasoning? I think its fairly spurious, the EU is corrupt? The monetary policy is designed for one country?

The point regarding ASEAN? It is keen to have the 4 freedoms, keen for further integration and harmonisation of laws, which is all the EU does too. There is actually very little sovereignty lost and the same type of sovereignty is lost when you sign any type of free trade deal. ASEAN also has a far larger population that the EU.

You might be right Mistigri. I am not a Tory (or a UKIPper). But I do feel she is the most capable of our potential PMs for the moment.

Danny
If you think the EU is so wonderful why didn't you go with a positive campaign for Remain instead of Project Fear? The whole of your campaign was basically "Look I know the EU is pretty shit. But leaving is going to be much worse. And by the way, if you disagree, you're racist. And stupid. And poor. And probably Northern (or something). So you know, just Remain. You're in too deep."

Danny
Yes the monetary policy of the Eurzone is designed by and for Germany. Countries like Greece, Portugal and perhaps even Spain and Italy are suffering massively as a result.

The problem with the remain campaign is it was run by the Tories. Its leaders had spent years blaming the EU and immigration for things that were actually its their own fault.

Oh and when the really good stuff that the EU has been part of, like peace in Europe was raised, it was dismissed by the leave campaign, and ridiculed as WW3. The leave campaign was very clever in that.

The problem that you have as a leave voter is that many of your compatriots were racist, its clear, the reason why the media is able to find people who say daft things about immigrants and immigration and other stuff is because there are so many of them.

No one prior to the vote new that certain areas or demographics could have voted one way.

But I can tell you this, if you are norther and poor and voted to leave the EU you have voted against your own interests.

Danny
Re ASEAN
One of it s core principles is state sovereignty and non interference.

Singapore does not dictate to Thailand what interest rates it should have. Malaysia is not required to accept unlimited immigration from Myanmar.

So I am in favour of trade deals amomg groups of countries. There are good models that work. The EU is not one of them.

"Countries like Greece, Portugal and perhaps even Spain and Italy are suffering massively as a result."

Yet there was economic growth after they joined and all those countries reaped huge benefits of joining the Euro in the first place. If it was all designed for the benefit of Germany wouldn't all the other countries have wanted not to join?

Spain and Portugal have similar growth rates as the UK over the last few years. Greece? Well like Italy, Spain and Portugal, the big economic problems in Greece are down to the national governments actions, not the EU.

Copper "I want to return to what we joined....the Common Market....with no political interference at all."

Well, the original Common Market has now moved on. All the original members are sovereign too and may not want what you want. So you can want all you like, but things have changed for the other members.

As regards political interference. Even India want movement for it's workers in it's trade agreements. They also wanted more student visas, I think, and the right for them to stay on after study! May came back from the first wooing with her tail between her legs as the Indians made their 'want's' clear in no uncertain terms.

“We will continue to raise our concerns regarding mobility with the UK. Mobility of people is closely linked to free flow of finance, goods and services.”

What does that remind you of?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/06/india-warns-uk-immigration-policy-wreck-post-brexit-trade-deal

"Malaysia is not required to accept unlimited immigration from Myanmar"

Yet they ARE working toward having freedom of movement, Singapore doesn't dictate what interest rates Thailand have because they are not in a monetary union. The EU doesn't "dictate" to countries, all the countries are part of the decision making process.
"

"There are good models that work. The EU is not one of them."

Yet every country that has joined the EU has benefited economically from it. The EU will be a success without the UK, the UK in hard brexit? Not so much.

Peace in Europe? I think that probably had more to do with NATO than the EU.

The EU has played a large part in keeping peace in Europe, being economically integrated lessens the chances. I also specifically said it had played a part I didn't give it the entire responsibility.