Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

Ireland used to take out more than it put in but thanks to the support and the growth in its economy is now a net contributor.

When you look at the contributions per capita, the UK isn't such a "wonderful" contributor after all - but I suppose we can pat ourselves on the back that we contribute more than Italy & Ireland

"And as Ireland takes out of the EU a lot more than it contributes (unlike us), you could argue it is us that will be us footing the Irish government's legal costs."

Since 2014, Ireland has been a net contributor to the EU.

The UK is soon going to realise that EU membership was a bargain.

Geographical proximity matters a lot.

I work in business services with a lot of EU clients. Lack of time differences, short flights and common EU laws mean that London has been an attractive base. We don't have many American or Australian clients as frankly they already have their own companies and the time difference makes conference calls awkward and face-to-face meetings prohibitively expensive.

Geographical proximity - So because we're closer to and in the same wonderful club as Bulgaria, we should confer more trade advantage to Bulgaria over India, Canada or China. Makes perfect sense.

Mistigirl
Perhaps Theresa May shoulda just put a note at the bottom of her letter to Tusk...
PS Donny, we reserve the right to revoke this letter whenever we want (without having to get Wallonia's OK). That'll be grand.

I want the environment not to get fucked in order to maintain working conditions in a potentially/likely weaker economy. If regulations are going to give way, the environmental ones are the ones being shouted about least.

optional What have you got against Bulgaria? India has given both May and Hammond short shift, like Canada, and the rest of the former Empire they are not interested in Empire 2.0. Time that May realised that the former colonies have grown up and moved on. We already do plenty of trade with China, unfortunately it is mostly on the back of our access to the EU, and our competitive advantage in services, science, tech, and the knowledge economy with some small sidelines in smoked salmon and luxury brands (no doubt expanding the innovative jam will make all the difference when we lose out on services) . Germany of course do far more than us, because they have a greater competitive advantage.

However the important neighbours are Germany, the Netherlands and France.

The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are the United States ($54.7B), Germany ($39.5B), Switzerland ($32.5B), China ($27.6B) and the Netherlands ($23.9B). The top import origins are Germany ($93.9B), China ($62.8B), the United States ($44.8B), the Netherlands ($44.4B) and France ($37.6B).

Ireland a net contributor since 2014 you say? Well whoo-di-do!

How much has it net contributed since the beginning of its membership?

I wish we could go back in time and the ref had never happened. Does anybody think the UK is a better, happier, more united place than it was before?

Nothing against Bulgaria per se. Just saying because one country is geographically closer (be it Bulgaria, Lithuania, Romania or wherevever), should that accident of geography alone confer a special advantage over say Brazil?

If you think it should, then Algeria, Morocco and (dare I say it) Turkey should be able to join.

MistiGirl, G&T
The Jolyon Maugham challenge in Dublin will make as about as much difference as Gina Miller did to the progress of Brexit. Costly, slow, bureaucratic, a monumental waste of money that ultimately will achieve very little. These efforts are an allegory of the EU itself.

optional Now you are playing the xenophobia card. Of course EU membership is not just about geography, it is about shared values, and standards, which is exactly why Turkey were never going to join under Erdogan. Of course Brexit Britain is only too willing to turn a blind eye to the fact that Turkey is rapidly diverging from those shared values

You have of course completely ignored the real issue, what are we going to trade with anyone once we damage our sources of competitive advantage, apart from selling arms, including cluster bombs that we have agreed not to use because of the horrendous impact on civilian lives for generations to come, to dodgy regimes?

The Jolyon Maugham challenge in Dublin will make as about as much difference as Gina Miller did to the progress of Brexit. Costly, slow, bureaucratic, a monumental waste of money that ultimately will achieve very little. These efforts are an allegory of the EU itself.

Gina Miller made a huge difference to the "progress of Brexit". The proceedings she was a part of forced the government to obtain Parliament's consent to commencing the Brexit proceedings. A matter of huge constitutional and legal importance, whatever your standpoint on Brexit and the EU.

The same is true of the Irish proceedings: it benefits us all to clarify the legal position on Article 50 and the Brexit process.

And therein optionalrationale deomonstrates his/her ignorance (I'm being generous and using the true sense of the word): Ireland received support in the early days so that it could improve its economy and become a net contributor. Healthy economies are ones we can do more business with - that's how global growth happens.

It's basic economics.

Unless of course the idea is to go back to our "trade" with the Empire, which was really just a plundering of our colonies' resources

The Irish taxpayers will have to pay to defend a completely frivolous case

What about the British taxpayer funding a divisive vanity project?

What about the British taxpayer funding a divisive vanity project?

YY - I agree.
The EU project has definitely become that.

The sooner the British taxpayer stops funding it, the better.

Yes cause the British tax payer has just set aside 7 years worth of net contributions to deal with Brexit, rather than spending it on public services.

Brexit is SUCH a good deal for the tax payer.

Ba-doom-tsch, Semi. Even the government accepts that the UK will be more than likely paying the EU for access to the single market Telegraph report so no one can scream "Remainer bias!".

And before you go shedding any tears about the Irish taxpayers having to defend the Jolyon Maugham case, optional, how about UK taxpayers having to defend two absolutely unwinnable cases in the High Court and the Supreme Court because Theresa May got a bit grabby with the use of royal prerogative? Ultimately, I agree that it didn't stop A50 being invoked quite smoothly, but I think the whole process amply illustrated how pig-headed our dear leader is and how incapable she is of building a mandate and facing up to the reality of a situation. Even senior Tory leavers were advising her not to go to the SC but Lady Theresa knew best only she didn't.

The whole High Court and Supreme Court case thing also demonstrated that all of the arguments regarding democracy and sovereignty were utterly fatuous.

*Yes cause the British tax payer has just set aside 7 years worth of net contributions to deal with Brexit, rather than spending it on public services.

Brexit is SUCH a good deal for the tax payer.*

You're right of course.

With hindsight, I can see that it is much better to be a net contributor of £billions indefinitely, rather than just the equivalent of the next 7 yrs.

We're still going to contribute after we leave, but have lower access and fewer benefits.

The net benefit of being in the EU was far greater than the cost.

Great thread :)

What do I want? I would like rigorous independent analysis proving that the UK will benefit by leaving the EU and indicating the best method and outcome. If the analysis does not prove Brexit to be beneficial I want it to be cancelled.

When do I want it? As soon as possible.

I want the peace in NI to be maintained, Gibraltar to remain as is (although don't see how this is possible), the the U K to remain united as one country, including Scotland. Leave voters took a massive risk with these three things and I think the economy is actually the least of our worries.

If the analysis does not prove Brexit to be beneficial I want it to be cancelled.

Many of the Leave voters I know want Brexit at absolutely any cost though, no price is too high. I'm going to lose my job because of Brexit, my (leave voting) family just compare this to people losing their homes during the war and think this is a small price to pay to get Polish people out of the country.