Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

But we'll know, and there are a lot of us.

Don't know, Elements. I've encountered a few real life Brexiters of the mild variety lately saying in exasperated tones "but why weren't we told this would happen before the vote".

Amazing, I know.

Mistigri

"You know I am actually really really glad that the thread has allowed the RMNW crowd to reveal their true colours. I actually started out as Reluctant Remainer but your attitudes here absolutely convince me I was right to change my mind.

I voted leave

Only one of these can be true."

I voted Leave in the Referendum in June. For many years before the referendum I was reluctantly supportive of our membership and believe d that leaving would be too much hassle.

Kaija

"I've encountered a few real life Brexiters of the mild variety lately saying in exasperated tones "but why weren't we told this would happen before the vote".

Clearly Project Fear didn't go far enough. Next time you need turn the heat. See earlier suggestions for "Project Terror" and "Project Poopy Pants"

Rufus
Your words
"We declared war on germany...thats how it works the country that declares war 'starts' it"

This is getting better and better. So Great Britain "started" WW2. "That's how it works" is it? Brilliant.

Three questions I would love to get your (or any other Remainer's) views on..

1. Would the Poles agree with you? That Great Britain "started" it?
2. Would the Czechs also agree? That Great Britain "started" it?
3. Assuming you're right, that we "started" it, where would Europe have been if we hadn't

"Clearly Project Fear didn't go far enough."

Yes. Clearly.

Winkywinkola
"Brexit is a shower of unworkeable shit enabled by opportunistic or cowardly politicians like good old Gisela."

Opportunistic, cowardly and turncoat you say? Hmmm.

If you want the best examples of the "opportunistic, cowardly and turncoat", you need to look no further than the actions of the surrendered French towards the Germans..
French police arresting over 1000 foreign and handing them over to the SS
Depriving French Jews of their citizenship
Forcing Jews to carry special identity cards
The remnants of the French airforce bombing Gibraltar
Deportation of French Jews to Auschwitz
The French Navy scuttling its own ships (to avoid them falling into Allied hands)
I could go on..

In case anyone is wondering, I think it was Badders 123 who first speculated (on this thread) how the experiences of WW2 influenced perceptions across Europe today.

Kaija
How about Project "The Sky is Falling Down"..?
You know, for the second referendum

If you've got any good news about Brexit to share with us I would love to hear it.

If you want the best examples of the "opportunistic, cowardly and turncoat"
How about deporting children?
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/13/european-couple-stunned-as-uk-born-children-denied-residency

optional

Personally?

I think we had to do it, i think we did it for all the right reasins when talking just wasnt working

I think we did it to save ourselves

I think germany committed an act of aggression when they invaded poland. Could argue they started a war with Poland

But we started the war with germany

Its not my definition of starting a war , i didnt make it up

We said to germany 'we dont like what you are doing in poland so we are going to war with you'

In the same way that japan committed an act of aggression against america and both japan and GERMANY declared war on america

America didnt start the war against germany . Germany did when they declared war on America

We 'technically ' started the war

Germany could be argued to have triggered it

But, forgive and forget, eh? I see old dictator Erdogan in Turkey is keen on insulting EU nations as Nazis, works a treat for him.

It's quite an odd turn for this thread to have taken. Perhaps it's just incidental, but it's as though as the damage becomes clear the Brexiters are reaching the last desperate resort of painting Europe as the enemy and remainers as collaborators.

(To be fair some of them were probably doing this all along, but it now seems to be the only argument left.)

I wouldnt mind kaiji

But i think we did the right thing by declaring war

We said invade poland and thats it we will go to war with you...and then they did it

But we still declared war

I am probably more of a reluctant remainer than optional i dont love Europe but because i quite like some of those pesky facts i am a traitor, enemy of the people and hate my country

You didnt say it optional but it has been said on previous threads

I still want an enemy of the people badge though

But the Germans now, have the integrity to double check if right wing extremists actually planted football bus bomb:

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dortmund-attack-bombing-borussia-team-bus-bvb-isis-terror-right-wing-extremists-claim-responsibility-a7685281.html

optional Isn't it a bit early to be on the gin?

Optionale m.youtube.com/watch?v=7nEYWwCsdUY

Rufus
The Remaines' take on history is getting really interesting now..

Your words
"But we started the war with germany

Its not my definition of starting a war , i didnt make it up"

So just to be clear, according to your definition of starting a war when started their Blitzkrieg invasions of The Netherlands (a country that had declared its neutrality) and Belgium without a declaration of war, that means (according to your definition), Germany didn't start a war with those countries. Nor did it start a war with Poland or Czechoslovakia?

No "declaration" means "Nein, we didn't 'start' any wars" does it??

This is some desperate stuff. Do you not have any positive Brexit stories for us?

Germany only actually made one "declaration" of war (in the whole of World War II (against the United States on 11th December, 1941). So according to your definition, the Germans didn't "start" any other

Kaija
The war was brought up by your lot. I am just seeing how deep a hole the "But we (Great Britain) started it" can dig for themselves

There is no hole. nobody's digging and it has bugger all to do with Brexit.