Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

Saw a news article on Cumbria the other week. Biggest industry is tourism, reliant on foreign workers, local aging population couldn't cover shortfall in loss of workers. Send in the robots....

If you don't like Brexit you are apparently anti democratic and talking down the economy. Either suck it up, throw your principles out the window and back Brexit or basically fuck off. Happy times.

There won't ever be a proper plan because leavers are still determined to deny anything which may take the sparkle off their new shiny brexit. 'No deal is better than a bad deal' is based on what? Leavers walking out of government committee meetings because the facts being presented aren't positive enough. Civil servants being denied access to the relevant brexit ministers because they don't want to hear bad news.

Brexitzilla is not making plans for if it rains, despite rain being forecast.

I don't see any industrial strategy. I don't see any plans for dealing with the staffing crises in both the Health Service and the social care industries. I wouldn't be quite so angry if there were plans.

Amen to this.

Maybe Brexit was about tearing everything down? People so unhappy with their lot that they've destroyed the status quo in a blind rage?

@Carolinesbeanies, let's wait and see what transpires.

Some interesting research on EU migration. 1 million of the 3 million EU Nationals in the UK make up about 12% of London's 8.5 million population. The other 2 million are distributed amongst the other 57 million of the population. I can see that there might be adjustments to the London economy due to a fall in the supply of cheap EU labour. I think it is much harder to argue they cannot be easily replaced elsewhere. eg Cumbria

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06077

I want to claim my right to an EU passport via my Mum. And then my dd can get one and the travel and work rights taken off her with this vote will be restored.

Carolinesbeanies.

I'm English as is DH, 5 years ago we moved to an EU country for work. we love it here but the plan was always to go home eventually, as the UK is home. But the job (academic research) isn't there right now, and we were perfectly entitled to use FOM. Our host country does not allow dual citizenship. Do you think we should a) give up British citizenship because of the decisions of some people we can't see any merit in, or b) leave our jobs and home to come back to the UK with our young dc with no secured income there?

Jumping, I totally agree. Anything negative pointed out gets you accused of remoaning, being anti democratic, ignoring the will of the people etc. Its ridiculous.

Caroline, I think you'll find the third option has been raised by remain supporters repeatedly, and then slapped down by the leave side, its your own campaign and its prominent supporters who have said that the Norway style option isn't on the cards. Again blaming the wrong group.

The Soft Brexit option is not the one that is being proposed by the UK, it is the have your cake and eat it proposals or leave without a deal

Why should anyone direct their anger at the EU for this? It isn't the EU that had the referendum, it isn't the EU that set the question, it isn't the EU countries which have said that they want to leave the single market and customs union when a softer brexit was optional.

Your anger is directed in the wrong place and the entirety of that post makes me question your understanding of what is going on.

My 13 year old has already told me he is leaving the uk as soon as he can.
He won't be the only one.
As a pp said, a whole generation sold up the river due to an internal squabble in the Tory party.
I am beyond angry.
And as a remainer I know that I and people like me will be held responsible for not "believing in the U.K."
Jesus suffering fuck.

The Brexit negotiations are supposed to commence in June 2017 and be complete by October 2018 to allow time for ratification before the UK's exit in March 2019.

That leaves just 16 months for negotiation but from this we have to subtract at least 3 months (two Augusts and one for Christmas, Easter etc). That leaves only 13 months which with at best 20 working days a month is 260 days of negotiating time to negotiate everything:

Immigration,
Citizens rights,
Financial questions,
Ireland,
Gibraltar,
Agriculture,
the Economy and Trade,
Customs,
Transitional Arrangements, Passporting,
Justice and Security,
Education,
Science,
Culture,
Legacy issues,
Patents,
Pharmaceutical Regulation, Reciprocal Health care,
Participation in EU institutions, Environmental Matters

And on and on and on. Granted that much work can be done in parallel but as nearly everything affects nearly everything else, that isn't as easy as it sounds.

It simply cannot be done in the time available and attempting to do so will just be silly and counterproductive.

Some interesting research on EU migration. 1 million of the 3 million EU Nationals in the UK make up about 12% of London's 8.5 million population. The other 2 million are distributed amongst the other 57 million of the population. I can see that there might be adjustments to the London economy due to a fall in the supply of cheap EU labour. I think it is much harder to argue they cannot be easily replaced elsewhere. eg Cumbria
I guess it's just tough shit if the 2 million EU Nationals outside London are mainly concentrated in particular industries (eg. social care or agriculture). I'm sure the indigenous workforce will be falling over themselves to take these jobs.

"I'm sure the indigenous workforce will be falling over themselves to take these jobs."
Both funny and sad at the same time.

Wonder how many people who'd turn their nose up at a meat packing job voted Leave.
FWIW I'd do it if I had to.

Wonder how many of the work force there are available to do it seeing as we're just about at full employment.

Actually I think these figures are wrong.
A lot of the 3 millions actually have settle down in the UK and are married to British people.
I'm not sure about the numbers but as rough guide, 5% of the population is in a transnational marriage. That's about 3 millions people. Assuming half of the immigrants in the uk are EU nationals, that's 1.5 millions.
So if you send away all the eu citizens, younwill send away 3 million people PLUS 1.5 millions Brits (their partners) PLUS about 3 millions children (assuming the average is two children per couple).
That's 7.5 millions people or more than 10% of the population.

I am pretty sure that it wouldn't be just London suffereing from that.

I'm sure the indigenous workforce will be falling over themselves to take these jobs.
Can someone remind me why those jobs aren't filled by 'native brits'??

And what will be the consequence if they do (or if they still don't)?

I've done a lot of the jobs that seem to fall to EU immigrants now...
Care work
Bar work
Waitressing
Hotel work
Retail work
It's hard physical work. It's low pay. it's often unsocial hours. Customers treat you badly because they feel you are beneath them. Employers treat you badly as they can because it's unskilled work and - pre brexit - there were always more young EU nationals who needed work.
I can't see many uk nationals falling over themselves to do these jobs tbh...
I'm very confused as to how to advise my eldest ds - should he try for an engineering apprenticeship at 16 (assuming there will still be any manufacturing in the uk post brexit!) or should he do a levels?
😞😞😞🤔

I'm sure the indigenous workforce will be falling over themselves to take these jobs.

What a sneeringly superior & shitty opinion you have of British people.

No it isn't. It's the realisation that low pay doesn't work. And low pay is going nowhere in Brexit Britain.

Semi...
Well Lets hope you will be proved right and post brexit UK nationals will be happily wiping bums, pouring drinks and cleaning hotel rooms with a smile on their lips and a song in their hearts....
Ime uk nationals and achoo leavers then their noses up at these jobs.
In the national news today it reports Nine hundred care staff PER DAY leaving
There will simply be no one to replace them after brexit unless we exchange Eastern European immigrants with commonwealth ones of course....which seems to be the way we will go.

My Mum came to this country (same time as the "Windrush generation") to do a job that not enough "native Brits" would do after the war.
Ironic that Little Englanders vilify people who come to do this. My Mum remembers being sneered at by a patient for being a foreigner. While she was wiping his arse.

Yep.
My mum had that too.
She was a "paddy" and the abuse she received was horrendous.

"What a sneeringly superior & shitty opinion you have of British people."

Is it or is it not a fact that many EU immigrants are employed in roles that traditionally UK workers do not do? These areas that had shortages prior to FOM?

Why is it sneering to point this out as a fact?