Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

We will not be free to make our own decisions if we are not economically free.

'Sovereignty' has no meaning without genuine power to act autonomously, which comes from resources.

In the end 'parliamentary sovereignty', 'democratic freedom', 'liberal values' 'nationhood' etc are simply the prevailing collective ideas that we in the west agree on during this phase of human development. But they are all fairly meaningless if you can't back them up with genuine economic power.

''Sovereignty' has no meaning without genuine power to act autonomously, which comes from resources.'

This is where I think some are overly negative. We still have some oil. We have lots of coal and some fast flowing rivers for hydroelectric power. We have some of the best universities in the world and possibly the best legal system.

We have one of the three (really two) biggest finance hubs and are a centre for global insurance.

Sure, all the above, with the exception of our oil, could be negatively affected by Brexit but, equally, they carry a lot of momentum and may be affected far less than some think.

We may not be analogous to Singapore (which does just fine on its own) but nor are we Nigeria (minus the huge oils reserves).

Larrygrylls, then why does Theresa May keep banging on about unity? There is no unity. This country is deeply divided. And pissed off.

Also universities rely on foreign students and academics

We can't reopen the old coal mines - they would have needed continual maintenance to do that. To run down the mines was a deliberate policy of Thatcher's.

Only some rivers are suitable for HEP - mostly in Scotland and Wales. We could perhaps use tidal power elsewhere, which has the beauty of being predictable. Where is the investment for that?

Lloyd's of London, the insurance firm, has already made plans to open an office in the EU.

Well clearly, from posters this morning, their message is loud, clear, and implacable. Its remain. But I agree with you. It is a binary choice, its either all or nothing. Thats whats its always been.

The UK will get whatever the EU deign to give us. Thats 27 states, all deciding on how they wish the UK to be treated. Its ridiculous to even think that the UK, and the views of the UK people, will have any effect on the EUs position. The EU are clear. As with the referendum itself, membership of the EU is an all or nothing position.

The fact Norway for example, have negotiated some middle ground, is irrelevant, as it was during the campaign. Yes it was bandied about, but only for what it was. A country who had indeed found a 3rd option. Could the UK be able to consider a 3rd option? No. The EU then, as now, say no. If the EU had said pre-referendum, we'll discuss a Norway situation, now go vote, then Id agree that the electorate were indeed mislead. As it was the EU have been very very clear. There was/is no 3rd option. There was/is no 'Norway' offer. The referendum question was a binary one. In/Out, All or nothing.

I personally wish those, who have clearly settled here from other EU states, would take their anger to their home nations. Take their anger and demand that their home nation supports a 'soft brexit/middle ground/3rd option' or whatever view you wish to take, as its those 'home nations' who will be deciding, along with 26 other 'home nations', the plight of their re-settled citizens in the UK.

In the absence of your home nations stepping up, you are left with TM doing all she can to protect your interests. If you dont want her help. Then fine. If you dont want the UK to fight your corner, then fine.

But what I wont accept however, is views like this.

"I actually wish that, if brexit happens, you are harmed by it."

"Is it wrong to want the people who voted for this to suffer more than the rest of us?"

Well yes it is. Its a thought process that is utterly foreign to most british peoples. Its something we are having to learn to live with, that there are those living amongst us wishing us harm, though its still shocking to read it, so openly posted as acceptable, on a public forum.

Direct your anger in the right direction. Your home nation will decide your future as one of the 27 members of the 'club'.

There are of course options the EU cannot effect. You have the option to apply for british citizenship. That is the only thing the UK can guarantee you the right to. Apply for citizenship.

However, clearly from some posters here this morning, the thought of british citizenship is an anathema. If you dont wish to apply for british citizenship, what are you indeed demanding from the UK that is within their power to give you?

Place-marking.

The UK will get whatever the EU deign to give us. Thats 27 states, all deciding on how they wish the UK to be treated. Its ridiculous to even think that the UK, and the views of the UK people, will have any effect on the EUs position...

...But what I wont accept however, is views like this.
*
"I actually wish that, if brexit happens, you are harmed by it."

"Is it wrong to want the people who voted for this to suffer more than the rest of us?"

Well yes it is. Its a thought process that is utterly foreign to most british peoples. Its something we are having to learn to live with, that there are those living amongst us wishing us harm, though its still shocking to read it, so openly posted as acceptable, on a public forum. *

Especially agree with this ^

And TM et al's job is to fight for UK interests first & foremost - the other 27 will be doing exactly the same.

What if Theresa May wants no deal? No deal so that she and her chumps can embark on a very low corporation tax and low employment regulation economy?

That would be great for Britain. Well, great for about 1% of the British. And for the rest too if you believe in trickle down economics.

We have some of the best universities in the world
Apart from being expensive, we monitor our overseas students to a degree that many find unwelcome. And let's not forget Amber Rudd's pledge to cut down on overseas student visas. We have seen applications from the EU drop significantly already.
This is what annoys me most about Brexit. No thought has gone into its repercussions at all. (See also EU workers leaving NHS just when we most need them and nursing bursaries have been cut.)
Who would want to 'get behind' this shambles?

Brexit by its very nature will cause financial harm and therefore harm the lives of some people. I remember hearing that this was a price worth paying....

It's also worth remembering that although this may be the most important thing going on for Britain just now, for the rest of the EU it's an inconvenient side annoyance. Where I am nobody cares or has interest in Britain going all Brexitzilla. So you're leaving. Fine, get on with it. But for the love of cheese can you stop boring us all stupid with your incessant whinging and whining about it.

Nope. We will never ever stop whinging or moaning or complaining about something so destructive and damaging to our country.

The Eurosceptics moaned on for forty years.

Now it's our turn. Enjoy. It's not going to end any time soon.

There are too many angry Remoaners out there who want to at the very least retain their EU citizenship.

And at the local elections and every election thereafter, I hope every Remoaner voted LibDem, Green, Plaid, SNP - whatever party is anti Brexit to demonstrate the country's true divide.

It is terrible for the UK.

"There are too many angry Remoaners out there who want to at the very least retain their EU citizenship."

And you are free to do so. The EU isnt going anywhere. Apparently. You just cant do so within the UK. Your choice.

Brexit will cause upheaval to lives and to future generations all because of an internal struggle in the Tory party. Angry doesn't cover it.

And TM et al's job is to fight for UK interests first & foremost

So let's not fail to remind her of that. A few soundbites on the steps of Downing Street do not make up for what her actions tell us she believes. The right wing of the Tory party is not the country, even though May's own outlook seems so narrow that she probably thinks it is.

I don't think it matters what we want, I don't think it matters one tiny bit.

Winky I'm not talking about 'remoaners' who have every bloody right to moan given the shambles that this is.

I'm talking about the leavers who spent 40 years whinging and whining, who've now got what they want, and are still bloody whinging and whining. 'The EU's being mean' waaaaaaaaaaa. 'Junker's picking on us' waaaaaaaaaaaa. 'Spain's trying to take our toy rock away' waaaaaaaaaa. 'Scotland don't want to play with us any more' waaaaaaaaaaa. 'Remoaners don't want to come to our party' waaaaaaaaa.

And you are free to do so. The EU isnt going anywhere. Apparently. You just cant do so within the UK. Your choice.

Eh? That freedom and choice is what people are angry about losing. That's kind of the whole point.

And meanwhile the Leavers have yet to come up with a proper plan. I don't see any industrial strategy. I don't see any plans for dealing with the staffing crises in both the Health Service and the social care industries. I wouldn't be quite so angry if there were plans.

Brexit is now in the hands of May and her merry men. Both leavers and remainers had their say on 24 June. The people have spoken. Brexit means Brexit.