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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2017 21:42

The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

Since Article 50 has been triggered – 8 days ago:

  1. A week after a terror attack in London, the government threatened to stop co-operation over security issues with the EU. This was quickly retracted as ‘not being a threat’. Except it was.

  2. The ‘Great’ Repeal Act White Paper was published. Its vague, lacks detail, does not have a draft bill and there is no plan for a public consultation over it. It proposes sweeping powers for the government without parliamentary scrutiny using Henry VIII powers.

  3. HMRC have said the new computer system planned for launch in 2019, won’t be able to cope with the additional work which leaving the Customs Union would produce. It would be five times the work load which sounds like a lot more red tape.

  4. Spain have said they would not oppose an Independent Scotland being in the EU.

  5. May’s article 50 letter did not mention Gibraltar and after the publication of the EU draft document on how the Brexit process would be handled, this looks like a massive error and oversight. One of the clauses was that any future arrangements with regard to Gibraltar had to be settled with Spain bi-laterally rather than by the EU and the UK’s agreement with the EU would not apply to Gibraltar, unless Spain agreed. This has been taken as an affront to Gibraltar’s sovereignty, although the document says nothing about sovereignty. Michael Howard, however, decided this was sufficient grounds to threaten our ally Spain with war.

May has not condemned his comments, and laughed it off. Though she was happy to get worked up about the word ‘Easter’ a couple of days later.

Of course, this situation was entirely predictable and was predicted yet this situation seems to have taken the government by surprise. Our reaction, in the context of everything else, has made the UK look like a basket case.

  1. The government’s plan to run talks on the UK’s settlement on leaving the EU in parallel with talks on the UK’s future relationship with the EU has been rejected by the EU. Instead we must do things in stages, with advancement to the next stage only possible after completing the last: Stage 1 – Exit, Stage 2 – Preliminary agreement on future relation, Stage 3 – Exit/Transition Deal, Stage 4 – As third country status enter a new deal.

The effect of this also means that deals we currently have with counties like South Korea through the EU need to be revisited. There is no guarantee these countries will want to continue trading with us on the same terms, if they do not want to.

  1. The EU has set out its own red lines. Our deal 'must encompass safeguards against...fiscal, social & environmental dumping'. Our transition deal must not last longer than three years and individual sectors, like banking, should not get special treatment.

Donald Tusk has said we don’t need a punishment deal as we are doing a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot, whilst Guy Verhofstadt said Brexit is Brexit is a 'catfight in Conservative party that got out of hand” and hoped future generations would reverse it.

  1. May has admitted that we might well have no deal in place by the time we leave the EU. Until now we have been told we would have a deal in two years. She has also admitted an extension of free movement of people beyond Brexit.

  2. The Brexit Select Committee published their report which warned about the dangers of exit without any deal, as well as talking about problems relating to the ‘Great’ Repeal Act, Gibraltar and NI. This is sensible and you’d think uncontroversial, but the Brexiteers threw the toys out of their pram saying it was too pessimistic. The government’s job is, of course, to plan for problems no matter how unlikely – such as disasters – and to hope that never happens. It seems that these Brexiteers don’t want to act responsibility or do their job.

  3. Questions at the WTO have been asked about how Brexit will affect them. Interest in the subject came initially from Indonesia about Tariff Rate Quotas, but other parties who were watching closely were Argentina, China, Russia and the United States.

  4. Phillip Hammond has openly said that there are a number of Tory MPs who want us to not make any agreement with the EU and to crash out in a chaotic exit.

  5. Polling has suggested that people want Brexit to be quick and cheap. Not only that, but the word ‘Brexit’ has started to poll badly. Instead the Brexit department are advising officials to use the phrase “new partnership with Europe”. Lynton Crosby, the mastermind behind 2015’s Conservative victory has also warned that the Tories would probably lose 30 seats they gained from the LDs at an early election.

Of course, even a 2020 election might prove challenging with a transition deal still likely to be unresolved as Brexit drags on. Government strategy is, apparently, to hope that Remainer's anger will have dissolved by 2020.

Eight days in, and the Brexit Bus looks like it strayed into 1980's Toxeth and got torched, its wheels nicked, and graffitied with obscenities over its £350million pledge.

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Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 10/04/2017 09:56

www.conservatives.com/sharethefacts/2017/04/local-elections-2017

The Conservatives May the fourth campaign strategy.

Too often, the issues at stake in these elections can seem removed from the reality of people’s lives. Some people are cynical about voting and about the democratic process in general, wondering what difference it will make.

But as we all saw clearly in the referendum last year, individual voters in communities up and down the country really can change the course of events.

Can't argue with that.

As well as keeping council tax low, Conservatives have shown that we can be trusted to spend that money wisely. At the same time as continuing to get the deficit down, we have maintained the quality of public services on which local communities depend.

This however...

Didn't David Cameron have a fight with his local Conservative council over the cuts they had made to services locally and got a rather snotty letter back?

It's amazing. Of course people believe it.

We currently have a nutjob going on about how the council have got it in for our area. She doesn't think people who weren't born here should make decisions about the area (as in aren't from a 5 mile radius never mind foreign. The local grape vine tells me her family had a problem in the 1950s with someone standing for the parish council because his family had only lived there for two generations)

The latest bee in her bonnet is the local council is involved in closing one of the banks. She is the world's most amazing troll. I'm rapidly learning everywhere has their very own local Katie Hopkins and this really isn't about the EU. She wants us to leave the local borough council and is disappointed that the local parish have not welded their almighty powers in standing up to the local tryanny.

As a result I'm considering challenging it myself at the next parish elections with a campaign for a local milta, a wall around the town, reinstatement of the 1662 Settlement and Removal Act together with extra local taxes for those not born at the local hospital at the next parish election. I think I'd be onto a winner and change the world with my new powers of office.

Sadly we have three years to wait here and local elections to look forward to.

Therefore i have to sit laughing like a maniac whenever i see bonkers stuff like the Conservative's 4th May pitch. I think i can work out their target audience.

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Mistigri · 10/04/2017 10:22

Bharat Jashanmal @beejash
Belgium, Germany, France already export more to India than the UK?

And what's the betting that a chunk of our a Indian exports are precious metals - ie no real value added just a consequence of the UK's historical position as a global centre of storage and clearing of "good delivery" metal. I haven't checked that this is true for India, but it is certainly the case for China that a big chunk of the UK's exports are of gold and other precious metals not produced in the UK.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 11:18

Times:* As we turn from Europe, the mortar binding the UK together cracks
*
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/as-we-turn-from-europe-the-mortar-binding-the-uk-together-cracks-2g2rdj0km

"Taking their lead from the prime minister, voters across England generally think that it is time for all to come together in the national interest.

They are dismissive of the Scottish government’s push for a second independence referendum and scoff that none of the other UK nations would be viable on its own.

With varying degrees of intensity
they see things differently in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

Leaving the EU means abandoning the overarching structure that was relied on to guarantee each of their devolution settlements from England."
*
"The Scottish economy is growing at a pitiful 0.4% compared with 1.8% for the UK as a whole.
But this weakness and the feeble revenues from North Sea oil are being widely blamed on Brexit,
for all that the Scottish business community protests that the “uncertainty” is actually being whipped up by the prospect of another independence vote."

*
"Many Scots feel betrayed that voting to stay in the United Kingdom has not, as promised, kept them in the EU.

That sense is stronger still in Northern Ireland where Brexit throws up all the painful issues associated with the UK’s only land border with the EU.

All sides note that Theresa May has deigned to visit the province only once as prime minister and consider that James Brokenshire, her chosen secretary of state, is “not up to it”.

"As the UK spins away from the EU, centrifugal forces are pulling on the ties binding the smaller parts of the UK to the English centre.

The English voters I spoke to wanted to row in behind the May government in the Brexit negotiation.

The Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish had little confidence that Downing Street will look after their interests."

PoundlandUK · 10/04/2017 11:20

Maybe this explains the reference in today's Telegraph article to the opportunity are of UK exporting pearls to India.

The only info I could find about British sourced pearls kept emphasizing their incredible low quality so I was a bit Confused

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2017 15:11

Remember the Kipper who said training women as doctors was wasting NHS money? Well he's back. This time he's saying the NHS are wasting NHS money on LGBT services.

metro.co.uk/2017/04/09/ukip-councillor-says-nhs-is-wasting-money-on-lgbt-services-6563236/
Ukip councillor says NHS is wasting money on LGBTservices

Can we just deny NHS money for treating him?

I will be looking out for the result for Chard North, Somerset on 4th May.

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prettybird · 10/04/2017 15:47

Some interesting findings from the latest Lord Ashcroft polls

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2017/04/new-political-landscape-britain-expects-brexit/

I have included the data tables as I can't for the life of me make sense of his conclusions on the positive/negative views of the party leaders (particularly with reference to Nicola Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson) but I am trying to look at them on a phone and my brain is starting to hurt I do however notice that if you only look at the respondents from Scotland a) more people know who Ruth Davidson is (nearly 50% UK either didn't know or didn't have an opinion) and b) NS was viewed significantly more positively than Ruth.
There were however fewer than 500 respondents in Scotland.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/New-Landscape-Full-data-tables-March-2017.pdf

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 15:55

iirc, a poll of only 500 people has 6-7% error bounds, comoared to the usual 3% for polling standard samole size.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 15:56

jeez, I lost my oeez peez

prettybird · 10/04/2017 15:59

Actually, just checked again: overall poll was of c10,000 people, of which 1,000 were from Scotland.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 17:17

Ok, then around standard polling error

Motheroffourdragons · 10/04/2017 17:22

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Peregrina · 10/04/2017 17:35

I am quite sure that the EU will get the blame, but the time will come, if/when the good times don't roll, that the EU can't be blamed.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2017 18:33

From the Ashcroft Poll.

Which of the following describes the … party’s position on Brexit?

UKIP's position:
Campaigned for a Leave vote at the referendum and now wants Brexit to happen as soon as possible: 75%

Is completely divided on the issue: 3%

Wanted the UK to remain in the EU, but believes the referendum result to leave the EU must now be implemented on the best possible terms for Britain: 3%

Thinks leaving the EU would be a mistake, and would still like to prevent Brexit from happening if at all possible: 2%

Don’t know: 17%

All you need to know about the British public in one lesson.

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unicornsIlovethem · 10/04/2017 18:34

Certainly there will be a point when the EU can't be blamed anymore! It will probably get trickier after 2030...

Just like the conservatives are starting to run out of mileage a little on the 'labour did'

prettybird · 10/04/2017 22:30

A better analysis than mine it helps if you're not doing it on a phone Wink from a Scottish perspective by Craig Murray of The Lord Ashcroft polling

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/04/media-tory-lies-stripped-bare-ashcroft-poll/amp/

Points out that Ruth Davidson is indeed more popular than Nicola Sturgeon - but only in England (where, iirc, 48% didn't even know her/didn't have an opinion) and that in Scotland there is still a very strong anti-Tory sentiment.

It also points out that the Scottish attitude to immigration is different, with only 28% (lower than England) putting it in the top 3 issues and only 4% putting it as the top issue.

woman12345 · 10/04/2017 22:46

What else does Kate Hoey know?

@AsaadHannaa
Breaking: the pilot Gen Mhmd Hasoury who made the chemical massacre in Khan Shaikhoun had been killed today by a bomb blast under his car

@parra_olliier 24h
Replying to @AsaadHannaa @SaladinAlDronni
So, we'll never know who gave him the order.

And Trump told Putin told Assad and Tillerson's oil prices went up.

@Khanoisseur
ABC now reporting Russia, Syria were given heads up–$100,000,000 in US taxpayer funded fireworks all for show

bipartisanreport.com/2017/04/07/abc-breaks-syria-exclusive-assad-knew-of-attack-bombs-were-for-show/

Who ordered the chemical attack?
Why would you warn your enemy you are attacking?
Without telling your own government?
And the Kushner links go on.

Why is the British government and Tim Farron defending this?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2017 22:53

Oh, Murray sounds v sure about IndyRef 2 going for independence
< far too early to say. "Events, dear boy, events" (channels SuperMac) >

"Tory Scotland is a Myth the Media are Trying to Propagandise into Reality"
< I thought the were ahead of Labour, but waaaay behind SNP >

"The media are lying"
< that I believe ! >

Very significant that Ashcroft didn't allow the SNP into his Tory poll

prettybird · 10/04/2017 23:30

I agree it is far too early to say, especially while TM is refusing to even discuss as 2nd ref and even if:when she does, who knows what Vows will be promised (yes, I realise that is tautology Wink)

What is actually more interesting is what is not asked as well as what is asked. So as BigChoc says, the very fact he didn't include SNP in the voting intentions was telling.

Reading through the data tables was interesting (should do it again when I'm on the laptop - it would make things much easier Grin). There is definitely evidence of wishful thinking - even amongst Remain voters and definitely amongst Leave voters - hoping for mutually incompatible and/or unrealistic results. And yes, the MSM will pander to and build those unrealistic expectations, so that they can then portray it as the "unreasonable" EU when they are not achieved Hmm

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2017 23:31

www.politico.eu/article/eu-sketches-out-interim-uk-trade-deal-that-hits-services-hard/
Interim EU trade deal to hit UK services hard
Banks, insurers and budget airlines could be left out of the EU market.

Airlines such as Air France and Lufthansa want a strict application of EU aviation rules after Brexit to curtail the activities of British competitors. Budget carriers such as easyJet and Ryanair will have to show from 2019 that they are majority-owned by EU interests if they want to preserve their access to European skies. Similarly, Britain’s financial rivals in Frankfurt and Paris want U.K. financial companies to move staff and assets to the Continent to maintain their foothold in the European market.

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SwedishEdith · 10/04/2017 23:51

Nice piece by Julian Barnes (although I'm a little Hmm about all his convenient encounters).

www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n08/julian-barnes/diary

RedToothBrush · 11/04/2017 00:13

www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-moscow-meeting-rex-tillerson-sergey-lavrov-syria-theresa-may-disdain-a7675311.html
Theresa May deliberately humiliated Boris Johnson this week – her disdain for him is reaching dangerous levels

But you can understand Anglo-American unease about unleashing Boris on such a fraught and delicate diplomatic task.

With Lavrov expressly referring to how close the US came last week to engaging militarily with Russia, this may not be the moment to risk a notoriously loose cannon firing the starting gun for a Third World War with a misplaced: “Strike me pink, comrade, let’s have lashings of Grey Goose and liberate Crimea!”

Far more crushing to Boris’s ego than having to leave the big boy diplomacy to US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is his usurpation at home. By sanctioning her Defence Secretary to hold the Kremlin responsible for the attack in the crudest and most aggressive terms (will the western powers never learn that, whatever our differences, Russia needs treating with respect?) while Boris was silent, May has effectively made Michael Fallon her de facto Foreign Secretary.

Interesting tweet from 28th March
ICO @ICONews
We have concerns about Cambridge Analytica’s reported use of personal data and we are in contact with the organisation.

David Carroll @profcarroll tweeted a thread about this on 27th March. Can't copy at mo but will try in morning.

Steve Peers @StevePeers
Looks like CA are processing data on political opinion without justification under Art 8 data protection directive:
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31995L0046:en:HTML

Prof Carroll has instructed a lawyer to get involved with the case. He is an American and the lawyer is an international lawyer. This relates to the US election but as SCL is UK based it's subject to UK law which is only reason he has been able to find out what information has been passed on.

Might go no where at all but seems that there may be a case to be answered afterall.

It has implications for future elections and data protection post Brexit. Personally i think it will be difficult to prove but i think it might help draw attention to issue more and has potential to make it more of a political hot potato than some individuals who are currently advocating less strict laws like Mr Rabb.

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BluePeppersAndBroccoli · 11/04/2017 08:42

swedish very interesting piece and can only agree with most of it.

Can we please get over the solemn-voiced mantra of ‘The People Have Spoken’? The People were asked a question by an over-confident political elite, allowed a monosyllabic reply, whereupon a slightly different version of the same elite chooses to interpret that monosyllable in a way that fits its own political and internal-party interests.
Nothing else to say there.

And right at the end
We have our sentimental vision of how others see us: as correct, humorous, eccentric, polite, tolerant, phlegmatic and so on – ‘très British’. But historically, they have equally – if not more often – thought of us as cold, arrogant, violent, self-interested, racist and hypocritical.
Unfortunately, it looks like Britain is now acting exactly like that.
I miss the tolerant, polite and phlegmatic Britain.

prettybird · 11/04/2017 08:46

Saw this on Twitter and thought that some of Wink you would enjoy it

May's speech with subtitles set to truth

https://thegreatbritishmoronathon.wordpress.com/2017/04/10/theresa-mays-plan-for-britain-speech-with-subtitles-set-to-truth/

Motheroffourdragons · 11/04/2017 08:58

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This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Peregrina · 11/04/2017 09:07

Theresa May deliberately humiliated Boris Johnson this week – her disdain for him is reaching dangerous levels

Then why doesn't she just sack him?