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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2017 21:42

The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

Since Article 50 has been triggered – 8 days ago:

  1. A week after a terror attack in London, the government threatened to stop co-operation over security issues with the EU. This was quickly retracted as ‘not being a threat’. Except it was.

  2. The ‘Great’ Repeal Act White Paper was published. Its vague, lacks detail, does not have a draft bill and there is no plan for a public consultation over it. It proposes sweeping powers for the government without parliamentary scrutiny using Henry VIII powers.

  3. HMRC have said the new computer system planned for launch in 2019, won’t be able to cope with the additional work which leaving the Customs Union would produce. It would be five times the work load which sounds like a lot more red tape.

  4. Spain have said they would not oppose an Independent Scotland being in the EU.

  5. May’s article 50 letter did not mention Gibraltar and after the publication of the EU draft document on how the Brexit process would be handled, this looks like a massive error and oversight. One of the clauses was that any future arrangements with regard to Gibraltar had to be settled with Spain bi-laterally rather than by the EU and the UK’s agreement with the EU would not apply to Gibraltar, unless Spain agreed. This has been taken as an affront to Gibraltar’s sovereignty, although the document says nothing about sovereignty. Michael Howard, however, decided this was sufficient grounds to threaten our ally Spain with war.

May has not condemned his comments, and laughed it off. Though she was happy to get worked up about the word ‘Easter’ a couple of days later.

Of course, this situation was entirely predictable and was predicted yet this situation seems to have taken the government by surprise. Our reaction, in the context of everything else, has made the UK look like a basket case.

  1. The government’s plan to run talks on the UK’s settlement on leaving the EU in parallel with talks on the UK’s future relationship with the EU has been rejected by the EU. Instead we must do things in stages, with advancement to the next stage only possible after completing the last: Stage 1 – Exit, Stage 2 – Preliminary agreement on future relation, Stage 3 – Exit/Transition Deal, Stage 4 – As third country status enter a new deal.

The effect of this also means that deals we currently have with counties like South Korea through the EU need to be revisited. There is no guarantee these countries will want to continue trading with us on the same terms, if they do not want to.

  1. The EU has set out its own red lines. Our deal 'must encompass safeguards against...fiscal, social & environmental dumping'. Our transition deal must not last longer than three years and individual sectors, like banking, should not get special treatment.

Donald Tusk has said we don’t need a punishment deal as we are doing a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot, whilst Guy Verhofstadt said Brexit is Brexit is a 'catfight in Conservative party that got out of hand” and hoped future generations would reverse it.

  1. May has admitted that we might well have no deal in place by the time we leave the EU. Until now we have been told we would have a deal in two years. She has also admitted an extension of free movement of people beyond Brexit.

  2. The Brexit Select Committee published their report which warned about the dangers of exit without any deal, as well as talking about problems relating to the ‘Great’ Repeal Act, Gibraltar and NI. This is sensible and you’d think uncontroversial, but the Brexiteers threw the toys out of their pram saying it was too pessimistic. The government’s job is, of course, to plan for problems no matter how unlikely – such as disasters – and to hope that never happens. It seems that these Brexiteers don’t want to act responsibility or do their job.

  3. Questions at the WTO have been asked about how Brexit will affect them. Interest in the subject came initially from Indonesia about Tariff Rate Quotas, but other parties who were watching closely were Argentina, China, Russia and the United States.

  4. Phillip Hammond has openly said that there are a number of Tory MPs who want us to not make any agreement with the EU and to crash out in a chaotic exit.

  5. Polling has suggested that people want Brexit to be quick and cheap. Not only that, but the word ‘Brexit’ has started to poll badly. Instead the Brexit department are advising officials to use the phrase “new partnership with Europe”. Lynton Crosby, the mastermind behind 2015’s Conservative victory has also warned that the Tories would probably lose 30 seats they gained from the LDs at an early election.

Of course, even a 2020 election might prove challenging with a transition deal still likely to be unresolved as Brexit drags on. Government strategy is, apparently, to hope that Remainer's anger will have dissolved by 2020.

Eight days in, and the Brexit Bus looks like it strayed into 1980's Toxeth and got torched, its wheels nicked, and graffitied with obscenities over its £350million pledge.

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Mistigri · 17/04/2017 06:39

BCF Starbucks is not paying their work experience cohort. I think that is a very serious mistake, if the teens will be doing actual work. Its not like it would cost them a lot: the MW for under 18s is only about £4/hr.

How long before the school leaving age gets reduced?

mathanxiety · 17/04/2017 06:58

EU BREW Home Secretary Amber Rudd is looking at introducing new ‘barista visas’ to ensure coffee shops and bars keep EU staff after Brexit

That is incredible.

They are casting their eyes around and elements of Brexit are suddenly dawning on them - it's all piecemeal, as if they are standing so close to the elephant that all they can see is a little of its knees:

lightbulb<
"OMG, what will the coffee be like when the nice Romanian girl goes back home?"
"Note to self - make sure baristas can stay, and if that's not possible then just the barista at [insert favourite coffee place], oh and while I'm at it, we should keep the three Polish lads at the [name of pub here]."

Mistigri · 17/04/2017 07:06

I'm absolutely certain that "barista visas" nonsense is fake news.

For a start, numbers are falling now, when EU citizens can come (and stay) if they want.

LurkingHusband · 17/04/2017 07:17

For a start, numbers are falling now, when EU citizens can come (and stay) if they want.

That statement contains it's own answer ...

Mistigri · 17/04/2017 07:25

Oh I don't doubt that people are starting to worry. But that "barista visa" stuff is totally fake news. Might have been floated to Rudd by some government "advisor" or industry lobbyist. I would be astonished if it were being seriously considered in the HO.

HardcoreLadyType · 17/04/2017 08:16

I've worked on a Working Holiday Visa in Australia. There is nothing like seeing signs saying 'WHV need not apply' on everything. For me, it underlined the racism that existed there.

When I first came to the UK, even though I had ILTR, I was constantly asked at interviews about how long I intended to stay in the UK. I found it very difficult to get a proper job, here, and worked in bars for a couple of years before I could get anything reasonable, despite having good transferable work experience in Australia.

You will find that many of your baristas and cleaners will say similar. They may be well qualified in their own country, but unable to work at their own profession in the U.K.

The UK as a whole has never been welcoming to foreigners.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 17/04/2017 08:22

I'm not a big fan of relying on migrants from Eastern Europe or anywhere else to sustain a low wage economy and poor working conditions. This is perhaps one of the areas where I can sympathise with some leavers' position on this. Unfortunately there seems to be a tendency among Brexiters (particularly the vocal ones in government) towards removing the relaxing employment legislation to remove the onerous European safeguards, so I don't see any chance of wages and conditions improving any time soon.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 17/04/2017 08:23

Bollocks didn't proof read. Maybe you can make some sense of that. It was an inconsequential contribution anyway.

Coppersulphate · 17/04/2017 08:54

This is getting ridiculous. I voted leave. Openly admit to voting leave and would do so again. I know many leave voters including family. Non would change their vote.
My SiL (City ....senior finance) is impatient for Brexit. Can only get better.
I reckon the people who are complaining, and hoping it won't happen are either nationals of another EU country living here or people who have a relative who is from EU.
Brexit will be better for the country.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 17/04/2017 08:55

Eeeeew

I agree with you re terms and conditions

Due to the minimum wage increase of 30p an hour some of my part time colleagues have been made to take a drop of 1/2 hours . Some of us already dont work very many hours

At this rate we will be on zero hours in no time

As many have said before its a race to the bottom

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 17/04/2017 08:55

Sorry

And thats not going to change in my opinion

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2017 09:16

I reckon the people who are complaining, and hoping it won't happen are either nationals of another EU country living here or people who have a relative who is from EU.

Nope. Neither is DH.

Nice to see generalisation and dismissiveness. Why does it have to be blamed on foreigners? Why is it beyond comprehension that English white people with no foreign influence to whisper in their ear think it's bollocks too? That's just the whole nationalism shit in a nutshell isn't it? You aren't British enough (English) if you aren't worshipping at the church of Brexit. You are a traitor or brainwashed.

So says the friend of a city banker who, regardless of whether banking leaves the UK, will no doubt retain their economic position, social status (white male by any chance?),and mobility regardless. Not only that they'll probably be able to capitalise on deregulation and removal of workers rights on other people's backs.

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howabout · 17/04/2017 09:22

www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n08/james-meek/somerdale-to-skarbimierz

Reposted from another thread. A look at the Poland / UK position and whether the EU is driving the race to the bottom in its attempts to create a rising tide which lifts all boats.

ElisavetaFartsonira · 17/04/2017 09:25

I'd be interested to hear how we're defining relative from the EU.

I mean, it's probably true that the majority of people who are unhappy about this undemocratic hard Brexit we seem to be thoughtlessly pursuing have, like, a sister who's married to someone with dual British and Irish citizenship. But then, that's probably also true of the majority of Leavers too. The number of people in the UK who are or are entitled to Irish citizenship is well into the millions, and not a homogenous group either.

Fawful · 17/04/2017 09:35

I'm not a big fan of relying on migrants from Eastern Europe or anywhere else to sustain a low wage economy and poor working conditions.
This low-wage economy wouldn't be replaced by a better one, it would just disappear, with the jobs going.
We have to be careful when we talk about 'poor working conditions'. When it's said immigrants take on jobs with 'conditions' natives don't want, what is meant can be shift or night work inherent to the nature of the job, and that can't be made better even by a Labour government.
I work in a chain restaurant and 45% of staff is from the EU (many on top of that are from outside the EU); the sentence 'employers have told researchers that they recruit Europeans because natives are reluctant to take up the jobs on offer because of the working conditions' apply to many decent workplaces including restaurants, where few British people even apply because (presumably) it involves very late shifts and working every weekend.
Twenty years ago as far as I remember staff in hospitality were the same mix of EU/non-EU citizens and 30% British working class young people.
So I don't believe there's a driving down of anything by EU citizens that can be happily reversed by anyone when we go home.

Mistigri · 17/04/2017 09:40

whether the EU is driving the race to the bottom

I don't have time to read the article right now (have to work - big deadline approaching) but I will.

However, I will observe, when it comes to wages and the supposed race for the bottom, that the UK is one of the few major EU economies where real wages have declined: wages have risen since the financial crisis in both Germany and France. And productivity is much higher; I have heard it said (haven't specifically checked, but it is credible) that despite a 35 hour week, French workers could take Friday off and still produce what UK employees do in a week.

prettybird · 17/04/2017 09:44

I reckon the people who are complaining, and hoping it won't happen are either nationals of another EU country living here or people who have a relative who is from EU.

Nope. Me neither.

Dh and I are 100% Scottish (ok, in my case naturalised when I was 10 had been in the country 7 years at that point as that was the length of time required back then - but from a Commonwealth country, not an EU one).

I do have EU relatives (from my father's mother's side) but they live quite happily in Denmark and Germany and have absolutely no desire whatsoever to come to the UK (why would they? - they have a better standard of living and better services where they are Confused)Smile

I oppose Brexit quite simply because I think it is a bad thing for the UK. As it said in the White Paper, we never lost our sovereignty, it just felt like we did because the Mail and Express kept on telling us we had Hmm

As it happens, Brexit might help Scotland achieve something which I want - her independence - but because I'm a decent person, it's not something I wish on rUK. While the rich elite will be ok (and will probably make even more money) it is the poor who will pay the price, as our tax base contracts and services have to be cut Sad

Mistigri · 17/04/2017 09:47

I'm British too. I do have two close EU-citizen relatives (who are also British citizens by descent) - but I can assure you that neither of them have any intention of moving to the UK.

HashiAsLarry · 17/04/2017 09:53

I didn't think anyone took Rudd seriously enough that we'd end up with some no-new-idea-thinly-veiled-racism popping up this early

ElisavetaFartsonira · 17/04/2017 09:53

I do genuinely want to hear what level of familial purity we need to have before we're allowed to voice an opinion about the referendum. The influence of the Irish in Britain is such that most family trees are probably slightly polluted. Even the nonwhite ones aren't safe. There won't be many of left who are entitled to speak. On the plus side, it would mean Farage having to shut up too.

HashiAsLarry · 17/04/2017 09:54

elis welcome to my childhood. Taint by association I couldn't help. You don't choose your family. But it makes you less worthy if you have taint. Can you hear the 1950s calling?

missmoon · 17/04/2017 10:00

"My SiL (City ....senior finance) is impatient for Brexit."

Bollocks, unless she works in a hedge fund, or by "impatient" you mean that she wants the uncertainty to be over.

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2017 10:05

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-row-over-plan-give-10240763
Tory row over plan to give diesel owners £2,000 towards a new car
Theresa May has reportedly overruled two of her ministers to insist on a new scrappage scheme to lessen the impact of the 'toxin tax'

If you are disabled there is a fair chance you are having your car allowance removed. If you are are able bodied with a diesel already, here have £2k towards a brand new shiny car.

Ministers opposing her are Leadsom and Grayling who say its unaffordable.

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ElisavetaFartsonira · 17/04/2017 10:08

It's funny hashi because the majority of the Leave voters I know actually have Irish citizenship through a parent or grandparent. Now I'm a manc, so that's pretty standard regardless of political views. But perhaps it's acceptable to have foreign associations if you voted Leave. I await clarification.

HashiAsLarry · 17/04/2017 10:10

It probably is elis because if you voted leave it would prove you've you've assimilated properly Wink