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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2017 21:42

The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

Since Article 50 has been triggered – 8 days ago:

  1. A week after a terror attack in London, the government threatened to stop co-operation over security issues with the EU. This was quickly retracted as ‘not being a threat’. Except it was.

  2. The ‘Great’ Repeal Act White Paper was published. Its vague, lacks detail, does not have a draft bill and there is no plan for a public consultation over it. It proposes sweeping powers for the government without parliamentary scrutiny using Henry VIII powers.

  3. HMRC have said the new computer system planned for launch in 2019, won’t be able to cope with the additional work which leaving the Customs Union would produce. It would be five times the work load which sounds like a lot more red tape.

  4. Spain have said they would not oppose an Independent Scotland being in the EU.

  5. May’s article 50 letter did not mention Gibraltar and after the publication of the EU draft document on how the Brexit process would be handled, this looks like a massive error and oversight. One of the clauses was that any future arrangements with regard to Gibraltar had to be settled with Spain bi-laterally rather than by the EU and the UK’s agreement with the EU would not apply to Gibraltar, unless Spain agreed. This has been taken as an affront to Gibraltar’s sovereignty, although the document says nothing about sovereignty. Michael Howard, however, decided this was sufficient grounds to threaten our ally Spain with war.

May has not condemned his comments, and laughed it off. Though she was happy to get worked up about the word ‘Easter’ a couple of days later.

Of course, this situation was entirely predictable and was predicted yet this situation seems to have taken the government by surprise. Our reaction, in the context of everything else, has made the UK look like a basket case.

  1. The government’s plan to run talks on the UK’s settlement on leaving the EU in parallel with talks on the UK’s future relationship with the EU has been rejected by the EU. Instead we must do things in stages, with advancement to the next stage only possible after completing the last: Stage 1 – Exit, Stage 2 – Preliminary agreement on future relation, Stage 3 – Exit/Transition Deal, Stage 4 – As third country status enter a new deal.

The effect of this also means that deals we currently have with counties like South Korea through the EU need to be revisited. There is no guarantee these countries will want to continue trading with us on the same terms, if they do not want to.

  1. The EU has set out its own red lines. Our deal 'must encompass safeguards against...fiscal, social & environmental dumping'. Our transition deal must not last longer than three years and individual sectors, like banking, should not get special treatment.

Donald Tusk has said we don’t need a punishment deal as we are doing a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot, whilst Guy Verhofstadt said Brexit is Brexit is a 'catfight in Conservative party that got out of hand” and hoped future generations would reverse it.

  1. May has admitted that we might well have no deal in place by the time we leave the EU. Until now we have been told we would have a deal in two years. She has also admitted an extension of free movement of people beyond Brexit.

  2. The Brexit Select Committee published their report which warned about the dangers of exit without any deal, as well as talking about problems relating to the ‘Great’ Repeal Act, Gibraltar and NI. This is sensible and you’d think uncontroversial, but the Brexiteers threw the toys out of their pram saying it was too pessimistic. The government’s job is, of course, to plan for problems no matter how unlikely – such as disasters – and to hope that never happens. It seems that these Brexiteers don’t want to act responsibility or do their job.

  3. Questions at the WTO have been asked about how Brexit will affect them. Interest in the subject came initially from Indonesia about Tariff Rate Quotas, but other parties who were watching closely were Argentina, China, Russia and the United States.

  4. Phillip Hammond has openly said that there are a number of Tory MPs who want us to not make any agreement with the EU and to crash out in a chaotic exit.

  5. Polling has suggested that people want Brexit to be quick and cheap. Not only that, but the word ‘Brexit’ has started to poll badly. Instead the Brexit department are advising officials to use the phrase “new partnership with Europe”. Lynton Crosby, the mastermind behind 2015’s Conservative victory has also warned that the Tories would probably lose 30 seats they gained from the LDs at an early election.

Of course, even a 2020 election might prove challenging with a transition deal still likely to be unresolved as Brexit drags on. Government strategy is, apparently, to hope that Remainer's anger will have dissolved by 2020.

Eight days in, and the Brexit Bus looks like it strayed into 1980's Toxeth and got torched, its wheels nicked, and graffitied with obscenities over its £350million pledge.

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Mistigri · 13/04/2017 13:26

I'll just leave this here: www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/13/european-couple-stunned-as-uk-born-children-denied-residency?CMP=share_btn_tw

Re maths/science, the message is getting through to kids - indeed perhaps too much. My very arty daughter (talented semi-pro musician) has decided that she will most likely pursued some sort of applied maths course after her bac. She will be guaranteed work, but whether it's what is best for her is I think questionable. The world needs artists and writers too.

Dannythechampion · 13/04/2017 13:29

One of the problems with maths and science grads, is that someone with a good maths/physics/engineering degree can earn massively more in the city or finance than they can in their chosen fields.

Bolshybookworm · 13/04/2017 13:35

This I should also a problem in teaching. Massive shortage of maths and physics teachers at the moment.

Bolshybookworm · 13/04/2017 13:36

*is!

I'm blaming my poor typing on the fact my phone doesn't like my incredibly dry thumbs Grin

whatwouldrondo · 13/04/2017 13:56

It was very noticeable between my two DDs being in the sixth form that there was a considerable shift to STEM subjects, and sometimes by pupils who you knew would do better if they stuck with the humanities and MFL they were good at. Just over half of all the pupils took Maths in my younger DDs year, twice the number taking any other subject but it accounted for four times as many B's and C's (in a school that gets roughly 80% A/A*). Now they are emerging into a graduate market that is not delivering on its promise that studying STEM subjects guarantees a career, particularly when they would probably have got a better class of degree if they had carried on where their talents really lay. Another source of millennial disillusionment......

Bolshybookworm · 13/04/2017 14:07

Very true, Ron. The job market now is hugely different to when I graduated in the early noughties. all of my friends went straight into graduate scheme jobs, many of them with fairly average degrees (2:2, Russell group but not Oxbridge/London, one of the top tier ones). Lots of industry jobs, huge research sites in Manchester, Loughborough, sandwich, Sussex. All gone. There are very few industry research jobs in my field now. The industries that have been doing well in bioscience over the last few years are largely service based (medical writing, clinical trials, sales) and are likely to be hit by Brexit. I loved my degree so much I'd probably still do it given the choice again, but I'd be a lot more realistic about my employment prospects.

woman12345 · 13/04/2017 14:48

^British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia
Exclusive: GCHQ is said to have alerted US agencies after becoming aware of contacts in 2015^
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia

HardcoreLadyType · 13/04/2017 15:07

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/05/the-plan-to-end-europe/521445/?utm_source=atltw

This is an interesting article about the historic and current relationship between the USA and the EU.

woman12345 · 13/04/2017 15:14

HardcoreLadyType I love Atlantic writing, lovely article, alludes also to Putin's cunning plan to use 'useful indebted' idiot to bring down EU.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/13/ex-british-spy-chief-sir-richard-dearlove-suggests-donald-trump/
Another one on Russian links in DT, looking like the chemical attacks being a false flag is now mainstream news, and the Russian links are going nowhere. Bannon's out too? But, Pence, please no.

pointythings · 13/04/2017 15:44

mistigri I saw that this morning. Terrifying. My DDs are 16 and 14 and are in a very similar boat - I'm an EU immigrant (totally exercising Treaty rights), DH is a US citizen working for the US government as a civilian. The Home Office still showing its true colours, or is this a cock-up?

woman12345 · 13/04/2017 16:21

I think it is a cock up,
Having been in possession of the birth certificates of Obiols and Schreuder’s children, which showed they were born in the UK, and details about their parents’ status, the Home Office case worker should have notified the family that the children were likely to be British citizens, Doerfel added
Hope all sorts out for you pointythings and on behalf of whatever this country is now, I'm sorry. Flowers

Mistigri · 13/04/2017 16:23

Home Office still showing its true colours, or is this a cock-up?

Bit of both I imagine. True colours in the sense that someone actively took a decision to refuse these applications despite both parents being granted PR/ ILR. Cock-up in the sense that if these applications were processed by someone trained to do more than say "computer says no", that person might have got back to the parents to suggest that the kids might have a case for UK citizenship (or simply asked for more information, which is what would happen here. Applications never get turned down for lack of supporting documents, as you invariably have a meeting with a human being to determine if your documentation is complete before the application is processed).

Mistigri · 13/04/2017 16:24

pointy if your kids have a right to UK citizenship, it may be easier to obtain this before they turn 18. I'd get advice.

pointythings · 13/04/2017 16:31

No right to UK citizenship, mistigri - neither of us are UK citizens. And frankly, if the government tries to kick my kids out, we're all leaving. I'm already looking into doing that. DDs have dual US/Dutch citizenship so at least they have an EU passport.

woman12345 · 13/04/2017 16:32

Shock pointythings

SwedishEdith · 13/04/2017 16:33

Good article. If only we had some moral courage from our headline politicians and our tabloid press.

'This Is How Germany Fought Back Against Far-Right Populism
“Emulation is almost always the worst strategy.”'

"Responding to far-right demonstrations that had adopted the “Wir sind das Volk!” (We are the people!) slogans of the past, Merkel used a New Year’s address to say: “Today, some people are again shouting on Mondays, ‘Wir sind das Volk!’ But what they really mean is, ‘You don’t belong, because of the colour of your skin, or your religion.’ That’s why I say to all who go to such demonstrations: Don’t follow those who call for this! Too often there is prejudice, coldness, or even hatred in their hearts.”

The language used by politicians matters. The Council of Europe, Europe’s preeminent human rights body, has accused Cameron of inflaming xenophobia and intolerance in the UK through his rhetoric on immigration. The former prime minister used the word "swarm" to describe migrants attempting to come to Britain

Germany’s finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, was forced to apologise for making similar remarks."

www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/this-is-how-germany-fought-back-against-far-right-populism?utm_term=.unnj01Yvm#.enDPBJWMo

woman12345 · 13/04/2017 16:37

“Lügenpresse” is what we have. That contrast of Die Bild and DM front page is shocking. But dropping AFD numbers are great. Smile It's worth pressing on.

Peregrina · 13/04/2017 17:05

According to that fount of knowledge, Wikipedia, Oxford introduced 2:1s and 2:2s in the late Seventies. So May might just have been one of the first recipients of a 2:2.

Peregrina · 13/04/2017 17:06

Sorry, wrong thread.

RedToothBrush · 13/04/2017 17:34

This is brilliant. The Brexit Department have a tweet with a graph.

twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/852534216025939968
Exiting the EU Dept‏ @DExEUgov
We have a long and successful history as a trading nation. We've seen steady growth in trade as a percentage of GDP in the post-war period

Read the comments...

The graph shows how fucked we are.

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whatwouldrondo · 13/04/2017 17:36

Those pesky Sir Humphreys being subversive again?

SwedishEdith · 13/04/2017 17:42

Those pesky Sir Humphreys being subversive again?

I suspect it is that. Thursday pm, lots of staff on leave...

HashiAsLarry · 13/04/2017 17:52

Awesome.
This is my favourite of the responses
Here @DavidDavisMP there's some drunk fellow making an awful tit of him or herself on your depts twitter page. Just FYI.

woman12345 · 13/04/2017 18:07

First on CNN: US drops largest non-nuclear bomb in Afghanistan
edition.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/afghanistan-isis-moab-bomb/

thecatfromjapan · 13/04/2017 18:16

Hilary the Warmonger, eh?

Back to domestic news (partly as a distraction), Corbyn's latest pronouncements are that Brexit is a great opportunity to ensure UK firm's are prioritised for government contracts. I genuinely think that Corbyn has been the biggest impediment to an effective opposition to Brexit.