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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2017 21:42

The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

Since Article 50 has been triggered – 8 days ago:

  1. A week after a terror attack in London, the government threatened to stop co-operation over security issues with the EU. This was quickly retracted as ‘not being a threat’. Except it was.

  2. The ‘Great’ Repeal Act White Paper was published. Its vague, lacks detail, does not have a draft bill and there is no plan for a public consultation over it. It proposes sweeping powers for the government without parliamentary scrutiny using Henry VIII powers.

  3. HMRC have said the new computer system planned for launch in 2019, won’t be able to cope with the additional work which leaving the Customs Union would produce. It would be five times the work load which sounds like a lot more red tape.

  4. Spain have said they would not oppose an Independent Scotland being in the EU.

  5. May’s article 50 letter did not mention Gibraltar and after the publication of the EU draft document on how the Brexit process would be handled, this looks like a massive error and oversight. One of the clauses was that any future arrangements with regard to Gibraltar had to be settled with Spain bi-laterally rather than by the EU and the UK’s agreement with the EU would not apply to Gibraltar, unless Spain agreed. This has been taken as an affront to Gibraltar’s sovereignty, although the document says nothing about sovereignty. Michael Howard, however, decided this was sufficient grounds to threaten our ally Spain with war.

May has not condemned his comments, and laughed it off. Though she was happy to get worked up about the word ‘Easter’ a couple of days later.

Of course, this situation was entirely predictable and was predicted yet this situation seems to have taken the government by surprise. Our reaction, in the context of everything else, has made the UK look like a basket case.

  1. The government’s plan to run talks on the UK’s settlement on leaving the EU in parallel with talks on the UK’s future relationship with the EU has been rejected by the EU. Instead we must do things in stages, with advancement to the next stage only possible after completing the last: Stage 1 – Exit, Stage 2 – Preliminary agreement on future relation, Stage 3 – Exit/Transition Deal, Stage 4 – As third country status enter a new deal.

The effect of this also means that deals we currently have with counties like South Korea through the EU need to be revisited. There is no guarantee these countries will want to continue trading with us on the same terms, if they do not want to.

  1. The EU has set out its own red lines. Our deal 'must encompass safeguards against...fiscal, social & environmental dumping'. Our transition deal must not last longer than three years and individual sectors, like banking, should not get special treatment.

Donald Tusk has said we don’t need a punishment deal as we are doing a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot, whilst Guy Verhofstadt said Brexit is Brexit is a 'catfight in Conservative party that got out of hand” and hoped future generations would reverse it.

  1. May has admitted that we might well have no deal in place by the time we leave the EU. Until now we have been told we would have a deal in two years. She has also admitted an extension of free movement of people beyond Brexit.

  2. The Brexit Select Committee published their report which warned about the dangers of exit without any deal, as well as talking about problems relating to the ‘Great’ Repeal Act, Gibraltar and NI. This is sensible and you’d think uncontroversial, but the Brexiteers threw the toys out of their pram saying it was too pessimistic. The government’s job is, of course, to plan for problems no matter how unlikely – such as disasters – and to hope that never happens. It seems that these Brexiteers don’t want to act responsibility or do their job.

  3. Questions at the WTO have been asked about how Brexit will affect them. Interest in the subject came initially from Indonesia about Tariff Rate Quotas, but other parties who were watching closely were Argentina, China, Russia and the United States.

  4. Phillip Hammond has openly said that there are a number of Tory MPs who want us to not make any agreement with the EU and to crash out in a chaotic exit.

  5. Polling has suggested that people want Brexit to be quick and cheap. Not only that, but the word ‘Brexit’ has started to poll badly. Instead the Brexit department are advising officials to use the phrase “new partnership with Europe”. Lynton Crosby, the mastermind behind 2015’s Conservative victory has also warned that the Tories would probably lose 30 seats they gained from the LDs at an early election.

Of course, even a 2020 election might prove challenging with a transition deal still likely to be unresolved as Brexit drags on. Government strategy is, apparently, to hope that Remainer's anger will have dissolved by 2020.

Eight days in, and the Brexit Bus looks like it strayed into 1980's Toxeth and got torched, its wheels nicked, and graffitied with obscenities over its £350million pledge.

OP posts:
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9
HashiAsLarry · 12/04/2017 19:43

cat I've seen a flyer re ukip and labour. Is that the one?

comfortandjoyce · 12/04/2017 19:46

Mistigri

I don't mind discussing terrorism as long as it's not just another excuse for a bit of casual racism and islamophobia (didn't comfort get the memo? Brexiters definitely aren't racist lol).

Ah, so discussing terrorism committed by a non-European is by definition "casually racist", is it? What a convenient way to shut down all discussion of the issue. How shall we refer to the perpetrator then? As a man? No, that would be sexist. As a mammal? No, too mammalianist.

woman12345 · 12/04/2017 19:46

thecatfromjapan is there a link?

thecatfromjapan · 12/04/2017 19:46

It's a television advert.

Mistigri · 12/04/2017 19:46

comfort as you are very keen to discuss terrorism, I suggest we talk about the Palm Sunday church bombings which killed nearly 50 people and injured over 100 at the weekend.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2017 19:47

We don't endorse, read every word in the Guardian, or watch every video
Rather like not all Leavers support every word in the Fail or Exoress

Currently, we are criticising Spicer for claiming Hitler didn't use chemical weapons
Hitler did use them - part of the techniques he used to murder 6 million Jews, plus a few million in other groups he hated

I note the tactic of "look squirrel", or "look Muslim" often happens when we criticise fascists for genocide, or criticise other fascists like Le Pen and the alt right for minimising their crimes.

Mistigri · 12/04/2017 19:48

Very interested to hear your thoughts on this atrocity, that has received very little press coverage. What do you think? Should we allow Egyptian orthodox Christians to seek asylum in the UK, if they wish?

thecatfromjapan · 12/04/2017 19:48

Found a

Smile
comfortandjoyce · 12/04/2017 19:49

woman12345

I may have taken a more nuanced interpretation than Andrews, but I particularly agreed with his use of Malcolm X's take on comparing southern wolves to northern foxes. I can see it's relevance to May.

Like calling out racism, calling out authoritarianism, which overlaps with fascism, seems to be problematic, but I still reserve the right to do so.

People usually grow out of calling anything they don't like fascist, but clearly you prefer to stay young at heart. One last question before I butt out - is the left-wing Swedish PM, who has strengthened border controls and is demanding that failed asylum seekers leave the country, a fascist for expressing those opinions? And if not, why not?

comfortandjoyce · 12/04/2017 19:51

Mistigri

Very interested to hear your thoughts on this atrocity, that has received very little press coverage. What do you think? Should we allow Egyptian orthodox Christians to seek asylum in the UK, if they wish?

Do you really think I can't spot a trick question at 50 paces?

HashiAsLarry · 12/04/2017 19:52

Yet you seem to think we can't see a not even cleverly constructed straw man Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2017 19:54

These threads are about politics.

There are plenty of other threads where you can have a paranoid hate fest against Muslims
Plenty of threads where the hard right can get together
Or start your own.

Starving terrorists of publicity was suggested - by counter terrorists experts - during the IRA Troubles and also wrt more recent Isis-inspired attacks

It's not my "utopian" idea at all. I'd rather have a totally free press, but the experts suggest that terrorists, especially loners and failures, are attracted by becoming famous.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2017 19:55

I suggest we ignore the GF derail and return to politics

Mistigri · 12/04/2017 19:55

The thing is that if comfort wants to talk about terrorism, we can indulge that a bit, if it's not just an excuse to play "look! Muslim!".

The Swedish attack was of course horrendous, but the Palm Sunday church bombings were far more deadly.

We could alsp talk about today's suicide bombing in Kabul, or the Boko Haram attack on the same day as Stockholm, which killed 7.

Over to you, comfort !

woman12345 · 12/04/2017 19:55

thecatfromjapan thank you for that, cheering,Smile and nicely made. Hertfordshire 48% are putting on a pro EU festival for Lib Dems in the summer. I'll post more details when I get them.

thecatfromjapan · 12/04/2017 19:56

Seconded.

Peregrina · 12/04/2017 19:56

Yes, I have seen the Lib Dem advert. Yes it's good. Membership has soared since last year.

I have got involved in Local Politics again after a gap of a good many years, and look forward to trying to get some dead wood Councillors lose their seats. I know one locally is especially worried - as well he should be.

thecatfromjapan · 12/04/2017 19:57

Yes. It cheered me up, too, woman

comfortandjoyce · 12/04/2017 19:58

BigChocFrenzy

I suggest we ignore the GF derail and return to politics

Astounded that according to you this topic isn't politics - this is one of the key political issues convulsing the world, as unpleasant and difficult as it is to discuss. But you feel free to put your head in the sand - much like some Leavers do when confronted with the realities of trade and geopolitics.

woman12345 · 12/04/2017 20:00

@timfarron Apr 8
25 years ago today, me and the PM heading for defeat...but both sporting Rick Astley's hairdo
I can't post the picture but it's worth a look. Grin
He should use it, he'd get even more new seats!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/04/2017 20:01

Returning to the Ashcroft poll. I noticed he also asked about feelings of national identity.
That obviously affects the SNP and IndyRef.
What is the Scottish Liberals position wrt Independence - unionist, iirc ?

Interesting pointers:

  • A substantial majority of Scots feel more Scottish than British
  • Wales identifies more strongly as British than England does
  • England identifies much more strongly as English than Wales does Welsh.

Scotland results:
57% consider themselves as more Scottish than British
23% equally Scottish and British
14% more British than Scottish

England:
30% more English than British
43% equally English and British
19% more British than English

Wales:
34% more Welsh than British
27% equally Welsh and British
31% more British than Welsh

Mistigri · 12/04/2017 20:01

What is LD membership now? I joined last year, but it's hard to really get involved from this distance.

We got an En Marche leaflet through the post today, with an invitation to join the local group. I might just find out a bit more.

comfortandjoyce · 12/04/2017 20:02

Mistigri

The thing is that if comfort wants to talk about terrorism, we can indulge that a bit, if it's not just an excuse to play "look! Muslim!".

The Swedish attack was of course horrendous, but the Palm Sunday church bombings were far more deadly.

We could alsp talk about today's suicide bombing in Kabul, or the Boko Haram attack on the same day as Stockholm, which killed 7.

OK then - could your shining intellect explain to me who carried out the 4 attacks you just listed, and why?

HashiAsLarry · 12/04/2017 20:03

Woman just looked, that is one awesome photo

Mistigri · 12/04/2017 20:05

Peregrina why don't you consider standing as a councillor?