Westministenders: Danger of "accidental" Brexit (whoops !) ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

i.e. Brexit without a deal - NOT intentionally so - due to UK govt incompetence and mutual UK/EU misunderstandings

The govt is proceeding from abysmal ignorance on a Brexit journey which may blunder into disaster.

Prominent Leave campaigner Richard North:

"The UK Government's narrative seems to rest on the belief that the EU will cave in under pressure, and is thus giving every sign that it is prepared to push negotiations to the wire.

If, on the other hand, the EU are determined not to budge, especially as, with their own White Paper on "The Future of Europe" triggering internal discussions unrelated to Brexit, they are not necessarily fully focused on the "British problem".

As a result, we could end up with an "accidental Brexit",
where the UK negotiators overplay their hand, ending up in the UK leaving without an agreement, forcing it to rely on WTO rules.

Most likely, it will take very little to convince the EU that Mrs May is bluffing – as the effect of the WTO option is likely to be disastrous for the UK economy.

We could thus have each side misreading each other, making the accidental Brexit all the more likely."

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86395

I think Jo Maugham's point is that parliament could take control and revoke A50 should things go very pear shaped.

A Parliament could, but not the current spineless bunch.

Why is it always "ordinary working people" that the Tories talk about getting the best deal for?
What's wrong with non-working people: those who can't find work/apprenticeships, the disabled, retired etc? I hate the way this phrase is slipped into Tory rhetoric, as a not very subtle way of implying other people don't matter.
And I say that as an ordinary, working person!

You couldn't make it up...

Warning - Daily Mail link. Has the worm turned?

Actually for the uk to join the EU again, it would still need the approval of all the 27 other cways juries, even if it meets all the economic criteria.
They might well not be that happy to see the uk coming back seeing the mess it's creating now and how hard work the uk was when it was in the EU (aka this was the country that has slow any reform of the eu towards something more than just an economic association).

Yu need to remember that the uk was initially stopped from joining in the first place (two times?). It can happen again!

That Daily Mail article It's not even the Mail on Sunday. What is going on?!!

You're right Greenpeppers - we might want to join but even if we meet the criteria which Turkey doesn't, the other countries might think the UK is too much trouble they'd be right

I think it was de Gaul/France who refused the UK's requests to join the EEC (as it was then) after our attempt at an alternative FTA failed and we were losing out on the growth that the rest of Europe was enjoying is history going to repeat itself?

A propos of nothing, I know the former editor of Scottish Daily Mail. He is genuinely a lovely gentle guy I googled him and he was known apparently as that rare beast, a "nice" newspaper editor

Ah this reminds me of a conversation with df yesterday.

• why were the bloody eu celebrating their 60th birthday
• because they're 60 years old dad
• it's only 40 isn't it
• no dad, things exist even without the uks involvement

Queue genuine shock on his face

For Twofingers...

It was deGaulle yes. He thought (correctly as it turned out) that we wouldn't be committed. We had to wait until he died.

And here's the TM-shirt for her latest tour!

Question Time Brexit special, 8.30pm - 10, BBC1 tonight,

Suzanne Evans, David Davis, Melanie Phillips, Nick Clegg, Alex Salmond, and Keir Starmer.

Bit more balanced than normal. It has been wall to wall UKIP and rabids for a while. Of course, now everyone will know that David David hasn't a clue about anything. After his answers to the parliamentary committee. No matter how much he brazens it out.

I was berated by remainer and leavers for marching on Saturday and took abuse from 4 different white middle aged men on the way to and from the march

Perhaps perhaps we may have made a very small impact. If only to stop and make people think. It won't be the last March. I will protest and march to protect my fellow EU citizens in the UK and for the rights of UK citizens in the EU. We won't be going away and I think when the economic impact hits we will multiply. Let's hope

Balanced? A party which now has no MPs? Where is the Green spokesperson?

Well, Bit more, relatively. In comparison with Daily/Sunday Politics/Marr

No Welsh or ni representatives either.

Channel 4 news had a UKIPper on as the voice of leave. Oh God, Davis on with that cr*p again. 'Well, what we're after is a good deal". Whatever that means.

Davis pretending he knows what it is going to be like and they've done a lot of work on it. Would you believe him after his performance under the spotlight?

What the FUCK is Melanie Phillips doing there?

Doing what she does best. Making everyone wondering what the Fuck she is doing speaking about any topic. Pseudo intellectual Katie Hopkins

Fellow in audience saying EU will of course do a deal with UK to stop the UK going to India to do trade deals.

Well, well, well. There will sure have to be a relaxation of movement to allow citizens of India to come to UK with a trade agreement. May came back with her tail between her legs after recent visit.

We ought to remember what one of the strategies that was proposed early on, by leading Brexiteers.

This is one about unilateral continuity where we force the EU to carry on as we are in effect without paying into the EU and being beholden to EU law.

So when Brexiteers talk about no deal being better than a bad deal this is what they are thinking of. They think that the day after the 2 year period has end, if we go off the cliff, the EU would have other option but to agree to unilateral continuity for their own interests.

The government are talking this route. As a negotiation strategy they think they can make the EU blink with this to get a good deal. Its high risk though, because there is no guarantee they would capitulate in the event. This is why they are also trying to vilify the EU too, as a fall back position politically. Its deeply arrogant and aggressive as it effectively seeks to destroy the EU in the process.

And the reality is that if the EU do just say, "Okay then bye", it might be hard for them but it will be catastrophic for the UK as we will be in an economic and legal limbo.

This is also why I don't expect anything to be agreed until March 2019, if it is. I can easily see us going into extra time too as panic starts to set in, and the public start to get an idea of what March 30th 2019 might mean. And there will be a panic.

What I find interesting is I've not seen any of the media talking about unilateral continuity, in months and what little there initially was, was hidden away on the internet for a select involved few. It is becoming increasingly relevant as this idea of no deal is talked about more and more.

Oh Gosh, Evans full of rubbish. The fellow in audience saying how they'll have so many trade deals, people queueing up and they'll maybe 'pick up' India and China too. It is total .... .

Wish Davis didn't say 'purr zho'. It is pew zho. peugeot.