The Brexit Arms A50 Celebration Thread

[BrexitArmsLandLady]

Welcome all - Leavers & Remainers
Article 50 being triggered next week, exciting times ahead.

Thanks to SurferJet for running the pub thus far! You're a diamond 💎 💎

Cheers 🍻
Brexit Ahoy! 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧

Imjustapoorboy, quote wasn't from Hansard, no.

However, quick search on Hansard brings up many quotes where he clearly states that he wants "best possible access" - here is a small selection:

the simple truth is that what we want is a good outcome in terms of access to the single^ market^

In these debates, membership of the singlemarket and access to the single^ market^ are often conflated

he of all people would pull me up if I confused access to the single^ market^with membership of the single^ market^.

the Government’s aim is to maintain the freest and most barrier-free access to the single^ market^ that we can obtain

we will seek to get the most open, barrier-free market that we can. That will be as good as a singlemarket.

Is it not time that we straightforwardly said that we want the fullest possible access to the single^ market^, but that we cannot, if we are going to stop free movement, which is what the people of this country wanted, be members of the single^ market^?

It's telling that the level of discussion has dropped to insults regarding looks.

Hope that gets you through the next two years as obviously a need to understand what will happen to your country really isn't very important

My overarching point being:

He has never said 'we will' get anything - he has repeatedly, however, stated his 'aim' - which is entirely different.

Considering Keir's day job is as a legal eagle I'd have thought he'd be a bit more on the ball to be fair.

'Hope that gets you through the next two years as obviously a need to understand what will happen to your country really isn't very important'

I have reported you for unrelenting and devastating sarcasm.

I have been entirely consistent wrt thinking Keir Starmer is creepy looking btw - this is not a new thing.

So reading that it is contradictory. This is the issue. There are leaving a void and not providing clear direction or understanding of what they mean

It's truthspeak and doubkethink. And it is intentional

It is clear to me that 'aims' is all that anyone could offer.

I don't know if you realised but the negotiations haven't begun yet.

And Keir putting me in mind of a T-800 (model 101) is off-putting, to say the least.

Hope that gets you through the next two years as obviously a need to understand what will happen to your country really isn't very important

It's a shame that so much conversation in here is just insulting leave voters. It's tedious and ill-informed.

See you tomorrow Semi. Hope the bar is well stocked

I don't know if you realise but the art if negotiation is knowing what you want and what you are prepared to accept

It's also ensure that your clients...in thus case us...understand what they want and are prepared to accept. Nonsense such as the referendum meaning eu citizens had freedom of movement removed was not specificalky voted for. That was rhetoric

9 months and nothing. Blind faith on get us a good deal

Wrong. How is that insulting? What's the deal going to be? How can you celebrate a void?

I don't know if you realise but the art if negotiation is knowing what you want and what you are prepared to accept

For eg:
Our aim is to achieve xyz;
However, we realise this may not be tenable, so we are prepared to accept xy.

YY
Perhaps creepy Keir should have followed this simple logic?

What's the deal going to be?

Do you realise that negotiations haven't yet begun?

Loving your unabashed distaste for Keir Semi

He should have stuck to his day job. No idea how someone with such a complete charisma bypass and so little grasp of the art of politics ever got elected.

I am a bit of a JC fan but even I am thinking he has bitten off more than he can chew. I really really wish him and JMD had had the courage of their convictions and got Labour to campaign on both sides of the argument as the Tories did. The box they are in is of their own making.

Dejavu. I asked before the referendum what the plan was. There was no plan

The fundlementals of business are that you have a view of what you want BEFORE negotiations. Sigh

Wrong I missed the memo where the brexiters on MN became the democratically representatives of leave voters. The views on here don't seem to rally with the many leave voters I know.

As an aside I think an awful lot of the problems of the last 10 years stem from politicians entering Parliament and getting promoted straight away without ever learning how to represent their constituents - Cameron, Clegg, Starmer

I increasingly wonder if Brexiters are just exceptionally nice people, who because of their niceness harbour a naive trust in their own government because they simply can't imagine them doing anything against the common good. It's certainly one explanation.

Boris

Oh - that was for the other thread...

I'm still struggling to understand what the views of Brexiteers are?

I've read extreme offensive racist and xenophobic ones which is diametrically opposed to my own soft Brexit views.

The majority voted Leave but I can't find anywhere that gives a clear poll on what range of views there are? They must go from extreme right wing to near enough to the Remain voters. I was far nearer to the Remain view than the extreme right, but have no idea where others are.

If the Leave voters were polled and 50% felt like me then they could be added to the Remainers and the government would go for a softer Brexit knowing the will of the majority was being fulfilled. For me immigration was a minor consideration

Olympia it depends whether you equate a desire to control EU immigration with racism and xenophobia. As a Leave supporter I am heartily sickened by Clegg and others suggestion that UK people "prefer" EU to non-EU immigration - I do not.

The Government's assertion that ending FoM is backed up by all the polling data I have seen which suggests 70-80% of all voters, not just Leave, are concerned about uncontrolled immigration. The EU has confirmed that ending FoM means leaving the single market. I don't see the confusion.

This is precisely the problem with the whole referendum, Olympia. There should have been three (at least) options on the ballot paper. Instead we had two Leave campaigns covering everything from keeping single market membership to a hard (if vaguely defined) Brexit, and presenting two incompatible faces:one inward looking and protectionist, one outward looking and globalist. If the question was on the single market we would probably have had a very different result.

I agree olympia

I think there are loads of us in the middle

Not being listened to or consulted

And being insulted left right and centre

I think we all crave respect and dread being condescended to.

which I guess means I need to offer respect and not condescend..... and hope others will do the same for me.

Certainly I'm finding that if I express my own personal fears people are willing to hear me more than if I pick holes in their judgment.