The Brexit Arms A50 Celebration Thread

[BrexitArmsLandLady]

Welcome all - Leavers & Remainers
Article 50 being triggered next week, exciting times ahead.

Thanks to SurferJet for running the pub thus far! You're a diamond 💎 💎

Cheers 🍻
Brexit Ahoy! 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧

I think uncontrolled immigration is a concern for much of the world including the EU and my only concern is providing adequate housing, schooling and health care for everyone, including foreign workers. The tiny minority who commit crimes or benefit fraud receive disproportionate publicity and influence attitudes thank you daily mail . Certainly this needs tackling, but it's minor. People from anywhere who can be supported and who work should be welcomed. We need a younger workforce and population.

Agree Kaija. The blunt instrument of the referendum and being bombarded on all issues with information and misinformation was like being caught up in a tornado.

I personally think/hope we can have free movement of workers but with provisos like fair wages comparative to the local workforce (not undercutting) and a rapid return of people who come without intention to work. just tighten things up. Something I think a lot of Europe would like to see.

Wrt 'controlling' immigration - 'control' is perhaps better replaced by 'managed' or 'managing'.

Only the twats on the very periphery want immigration stopped completely; only the most ardent europhiles on the other extreme want completely unfettered open borders.

Most people accept that immigration is positive overall, however can acknowledge that it is problematic in certain sectors/areas.
These people want it to be managed in a grown up & fair way.

Wrt the EU, again, only the extremes on each side want the extremes:
Complete 'ever closer union' or complete detachment in all forms.
Most people were not happy with the EU as it is now, in its current form & direction.

I, personally, think that being a partner to the EU whilst not 'in the club' completely is the best fit for Britain.
Hence my vote to leave.

I think "managed" has the potential to be reinterpreted as accommodating any level after the fact however high and no matter whether it was planned for Semi which is why I prefer "controlled".

the last two posts are thoughtful and make me feel a bit better.

would you both agree though that it's going to be a bit of a rope-bridge-across-the-chasm time getting to where you want us to be though?

I believe in the European project but that is something bigger than the specifics of the EU.

I was in a country as it broke up in 1992 and saw the peace-creating role of the EU there - how it inspired people to look to the best in their own history, not to surrender it. I appreciate I was very lucky to see that and it wasn't visible to people in the UK.

I mean Olympia and Semi's posts (not that there's anything wrong with the following one)

would you both agree though that it's going to be a bit of a rope-bridge-across-the-chasm time getting to where you want us to be though?

The truth is that despite grandstanding & posturing from either side (EU & UK), nobody actually knows anything yet - this is what will be decided & agreed over the coming years.

The UK has set out its stall, and on Thursday the EU will begin to do the same - it's mutually beneficial for things to go well.

This is why I have no problem with David Davis: our aims are....
And cannot understand Keir et al: if we don't get, then...

Both sides (EU & UK), however, have asserted that citizens' rights/situations will be the first priority - this is the human first step to take.

That makes sense howabout (controlled vs managed).

It's just a shame that some elements jump all over 'controlled' as being a negative thing, in their desperate attempts to paint anyone who expresses a wish to control immigration as rabid, xenophobic, Britain First apologists.

Smashed. Yes it's going to be a difficult bridge to cross.

However I do think the EU and the UK are doing the typical negotiating tactic of going in making very hard line noises, but (if they've any sense) will negotiate a middle way. FoM can continue but with provisos that protect eu and uk workers rights and have limitations on right to stay. Or a cap being placed on migrants to accommodate local conditions (housing etc).

The EU want to continue to trade with us because economically it's common sense so I can't see why they won't make concessions to keep FoM but not as it is now. We do have to stand firm on the abuses of the system and I hope the EU will understand that, as many of the original members are facing similar issues. Hence all the hard right movements. Something everyone wants rid of as it is destabilising Europe and surely the negotiators can see that?

I think the current unrest in the EU and the UK is because of the rapid expansion into Eastern European countries formerly under soviet control. I think the former USSR fostered a culture of corruption and it's a miracle the majority of Eastern Europeans have shown themselves as decent as they have. (We won't talk about the Greeks cooking the books, so corruption is not reserved for any country).

I don't mind paying for free trade, I just don't want to pay for a bunch of unelected beaurocrats to up sticks for a change of scenery on a regular basis. It's that type of waste the we have no control over that I voted leave for. I also voted to do deals with other countries.

I completely agree that the range views of what people voted are far and wide and that the campaigns were to blame...on all sides. The referendum should have had a clear view of what was proposed. It didn't. The may government have had 9 months to clarify. They haven't. I think all quarters will be dissatisfied with the result as no clear proposal is in place. It's a void. They aren't filling it adequately. Voids in polotics are dangerous

"my only concern is providing adequate housing, schooling and health care for everyone, including foreign workers."

Thing is, if people are working, foreign or British, they are paying for their housing, schooling and health care through their taxes and insurance contributions. It is not being provided as a gift by somebody else.

If someone is not working or self supporting, British or foreign, they are not paying for their services. It is being provided for them, via the Welfare state, by the taxes of the people who are working.

I just want to raise a toast to all Leavers who have had a very long wait. I know the triggering of A50 is just the beginning but it is an important milestone.

I'm expecting it to be quiet on here tomorrow as obviously many Remainers will have to fall on their swords and commit hara kiri at their failure to turn back the tide.

Cheers

I understand Olympia,

I do litigation (ethically i might add! :)) so I also do get about the "best alternative to a negotiated agreement" talk that's going on at the moment.

But usually the very worst that's at stake in my litigation is the jobs of a few scientists, who will find new jobs somewhere else very quickly.

Here, the scale of risk, the consequences of failure and the inevitable anguish of those who are pawns terrifies me.

"I think the current unrest in the EU and the UK is because of the rapid expansion into Eastern European countries formerly under soviet control."

You must think it is a pity then that Britain was the leading champion of expansion among the 15 member states. In 2000, the UK were concerned that expansion would be delayed. The UK were challenging "German-inspired ideas of delaying expansion pending a new round of EU internal reforms."

In fact this was the mood from the UK at the time.

"Mr Cook's speech, to be made in Budapest to an audience of Hungarian ambassadors, reflects growing concern in London that the pace of Europe's expansion is slowing."

"Mr Cook will present Britain as the leading champion of expansion among the existing 15 member states. One diplomat from an applicant country last night described Mr Cook's ideas as "music to our ears".

and

"The British Foreign Secretary will call for concessions under which applicant countries are given several years' exemption from the need to meet some costly European legal requirements."

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/britain-to-push-for-a-firm-deadline-on-next-phase-of-eu-expansion-707675.html

I'm expecting it to be quiet on here tomorrow as obviously many Remainers will have to fall on their swords and commit hara kiri at their failure to turn back the tide.

I proper lol'd at that Rorty

Sadly, I expect the opposite.

Going on the precedent set by reactions to previous milestones on the Brexit journey, I fully expect a deluge of the usual suspects coming onto this thread to use MN Leavers as their personal whipping boys.

Expect lots of ranting, including (but not limited to):
Unicorns
Sunlit uplands
Cake (and eating thereof)
Little Englanders
Empire (various)

Perhaps a bingo sheet could be created to inject some levity?!

I'm expecting it to be quiet on here tomorrow as obviously many Remainers will have to fall on their swords and commit hara kiri at their failure to turn back the tide.

rorty for someone who hounded me for months by twisting a comment I made and implying I was 'gleeful' about the prospect of people potentially losing their jobs (when that was not the case at all) your comment above, relishing the prospect of people committing suicide is both hypocritical and despicable.

I'm assuming you just did it to be a goady fucker as that's all you ever post on here now.

Very, very poor taste.

"I think the former USSR fostered a culture of corruption and it's a miracle the majority of Eastern Europeans have shown themselves as decent as they have"

It was corrupt but people were well educated and admired the west. Czechoslovakia had been in the world's top ten economies between the wars, and so after the Velvet Revolution Havel was able to draw on their own history of running a successful democracy plus their cultural heritage (and of course he was an artist respected in the west) and combine that with their desire to be part of the "right" side of Europe.

It was harder for Slovakia where the democratic culture had been weaker.

And I don't know about other countries.

But I felt very proud the day the Czechs joined. And so did they.

Cailleach, I think most Leavers will agree that the Blair/Brown administration were not operating with a long-sighted view of rapid expansionism.

Rorty :(

I had never realised - not really - how we all hate to be mocked and our feelings trivialised or misrepresented.

You'd think I'd know that at 46 but it's only really sinking in reading this stuff.

re rapid expansion.

Havel worked hard on the Czechs to harness their sense of citizenship and responsibility (these had become in active under USSR dominance).

He valued industries like graphic design and animation which had continued to thrive in safe areas like fine arts and children's television, and this is the reason why lots of advertisements are created in Prague to this day.

"It's a shame that so much conversation in here is just insulting leave voters. It's tedious and ill-informed. "

in light of that

I'm expecting it to be quiet on here tomorrow as obviously many Remainers will have to fall on their swords and commit hara kiri at their failure to turn back the tide

--I proper lol'd at that Rorty

Sadly, I expect the opposite-- .

Wow. I haven't seen this thread before, but the venom in that towards ordinary posters is breathtaking. And hypocrisy.

I've not noticed any ordinary posters on these threads

What? Extraordinary?

Why is that venom?
Or hypocrisy?

Seriously?

Well certainly in terms of myopia yes