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Brexit

Westministenders: Its time to fire the starting gun. At our own heads.

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2017 12:03

Its time for the suicide. The note will say simply, "The EU made us do it".

David Davies, says that despite May’s assertion that no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK, that actually we don’t know this as he hasn’t got round to quantifying the impact of no deal.

He still has no answers for anything apart from “I dunno” and “I’ll do it later”. I can’t wait for when the dog ate my homework excuse.

After 9 months. That’s how far we’ve got. Brexit negotiation skills will have 18 months (not 2 years as it’ll need to be ratified). We are still hiring people for the Brexit department. What about all these EU agencies that the UK will have to replicate and hire and train up in 2 years time?

I’m still waiting for Davies to tell me what all these potential benefits he keeps going on about are too. Benefits for who exactly? Ah yes we know the answer to this one too, even if its not being said. Its political elites and elites with lots of money who can consolidate power and enslave the population through debt and desperation. Goodie. Just what I’ve always wanted. As long as I can wave my Union Jack. Oh. Shit. Bugger.

Nicola Sturgeon, has been doing a good job of showing Brexiteers exactly what they look like to Remainers by holding up the mirror of irony to the Vampires of the 19th Century State. The sight of them tripping over themselves saying its irrational to hold a ‘blind vote’ and that the economic argument is flawed is hilarious. If you are not British.

Hammond has been forced to u-turn on NIC budget announcement as it was not in the spirit of the manifesto. What happened to the manifesto pledge to the protect interests in the Single Market. Lets be honest, the New Tory Manifesto read simply: “We’ll wing it and see what we can get away with”. I wonder how many people would vote for that.

Its Brexit at all costs. No matter what. We must keep the foreigners out. Even though Davis hasn’t done an assessment on the financial impact of migration. Just think about that for a second. Actually don’t because you might actually want to shoot yourself in the head.

At best the government are still relying on Game Theory as a basis for their negotiations and the EU are already going, “Er we don’t think so”.

Perhaps this is the intention of May’s tour to build consensus. She’s handing out guns and bullets to anyone who displays rational thought, to blow their own brains out.

May’s weakness is her manner and her chip on her shoulder for the law. Her own party are not immune to it. She seems to think trade deals are not done based on goodwill. May’s weakness is Britain’s folly.

Pass the blindfolds round, and get on your knees and await our own execution by our own hands.

Bang.

RIP The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland. I will remember you with nostalgic fondness but equally with bitterness and shame. Our finest hours are long since passed (and were tainted with the excesses of exploitation anyway) and we must accept this as part of the process of ‘accepting Brexit’.

Now its time for the empty hand to start being shown and the blame game to begin in earnest. The politics of hate have only just begun and the divorce has not started yet. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are the kids we might not get custody of.

We’ll be blacking up again, running around groping women like Benny Hill and pushing people back into the closet as we hit the off switch before you know it. As well as having nice shiny new ID cards we’ll have to pay for the privilege of owning and carrying at all times, to prove we aren’t nasty illegal immigrants or those equally nasty legal ones clogging up our NHS (by working for it).

Don’t worry though. Uncle Donny will save us. If he doesn’t die suddenly after eating a bowl of Russia soup or have a fatal heart attack after accidentally falling out of a tenth story window.

OP posts:
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woman12345 · 15/03/2017 22:01

Spectator's turning: If the Tories can mess up the budget how will they handle brexit.
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/tories-cant-keep-budget-promises-can-trusted-brexit/

HashiAsLarry · 15/03/2017 22:11

swedish sounds a lot to me like he's saying they weren't expecting to be held by their manifesto anymore. Maybe they shouldn't have played the political game and actually named Brexit as the reason we need more money. No one would complain then. Well no one who counted Wink

Mistigri · 15/03/2017 22:16

The Irish have had a go at quantifying the impact on trade of a no-deal brexit. It's not pretty:

www.esri.ie/pubs/WP550.pdf

(This is a couple of months old; Davis hasn't even got round to looking at it yet!!!)

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2017 22:16

The independent was quoting studies about the habits of stupid people

  • which, I just realised, perfectly describe this goverment's behaviour wrt Brexit:
  1. Stupid people blame others for their own mistakes
  2. Stupid people always have to be right
  3. Stupid people react to conflicts with anger and aggression
  4. Stupid people ignore the needs and feelings of other people
  5. Stupid people think they are better than everyone else

The wingnut hard right Tory MPs especially exhibit the the Dunning-Kruger effect in pt 2:
*
"*Stupid people on the other hand will continue arguing forever and will not budge from their position, regardless of any valid arguments brought against them.
That also means they will not notice if the other person happens to be more intelligent and competent."

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/5-habits-of-stupid-people-that-smart-people-don-t-have-a7620941.html

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2017 22:17

government

Mistigri · 15/03/2017 22:22

We've learnt today that, despite what May says, the government has not planned for no deal, because they categorically will not leave without one. Game set and match to the EU.

I think today broadly supports my thesis that they're not planning for the cliff-edge because they never intended to go over it.

OTOH, Davis is clueless beyond my worst fears (and he's theoretically the one our of the three brexiteers with the most clues). If Hammond goes, it dramatically increases the risk of the UK going over the cliff-edge by mistake.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2017 22:25

Financial passporting - who is most affected ?

336,421 separate “passports” are used by 5,476 UK -registered companies to do business in the EU.

23,532 separate passports are used by E27/EEA -registered companies for business in the UK.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2017 22:25

Thanks, Misti for your WTO answer

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2017 22:26

Misti They may be too ignorant and stupid to recognise a cliff edge - before they crash the UK over it

prettybird · 15/03/2017 22:43

Re why people aren't more concerned/angry about this, I saw this on one of the pro-EU Facebook groups which was discussing why there weren't riots like there had been about the poll tax

^"It's the boiling frog effect. The Poll Tax had a direct, immediate and obvious impact. Didn't matter that people hadn't liked its implementation in Scotland; it was when it started hitting people's pockets in England that more people started objecting and MPs started getting worried.
The challenge with Brexit is that for the moment the temperature of the water is only gradually increasing (eg price of butter going up 😉^).
And once the general populace has realised the water is too hot, it will be too late 😟"

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2017 22:48

Dutch elections Exit Poll
Margin +/- 2%

Wilders easily beaten, won only 19 out of 150 seats.
After all the hype, only a small increase on last GE

EU politicians celebrating already

VVD 31 seats
CDA 19 seats
D66 19 seats
PVV 19 seats (Wilders)
GL 16 seats
SP 14 seats

Westministenders: Its time to fire the starting gun. At our own heads.
Cailleach1 · 15/03/2017 22:50

I've skipped a couple of pages, but just have to mention DDavis on that committee.

The contemptuous way he dealt with Cherry. I know she was not out to charm, herself, but the way he responded to her. Eventually we got to the fact that they couldn't meet because there was no NI executive. So not at all possible to meet Scotland or Wales. Or talk with them it seemed.

Scotland had written a lengthy enough paper with case law and everything. There was a meeting at some stage, Russell was there so whatever he said at that meeting was the response to the paper.

Then the piece de résistance. They didn't have to reach an agreement with Scotland, etc. They only had to SEEK to reach an agreement. Big difference. No agreement needed.

If I was in the SNP, I would have that on a loop if there is another referendum. With Rabb openly sniggering in the background.

Mark Durkan had no luck either. For all the Con's lip service. Of course, a light touch border. Everything was going to be perfectly fine. No problem whatsoever, but no answers on real things. About the GFA and the entitlement of people to identify as Irish, British or both, so identity of an EU country. About the GFA in any Brexit agreement and how NI could in the future join the single market without article 49. God help us, Davis said he was going to consult with Brokenshire .

Maria Caulfield was being hugely generous when she said at one stage 'So, that is a work in progress'. He objected to that. I think she was wrong for the opposite reason. The work hadn't even been started.

It was the biggest show of meanadering chatter about 'stuff'. Obliquely connected to the topic, but not an answer to the questions. Kind of a flow of consciousness.

And my flow of consciousness is over.

Motheroffourdragons · 15/03/2017 22:53

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This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

EffinElle · 15/03/2017 23:24
Wine
woman12345 · 15/03/2017 23:56

@RegSprecher
Kanzlerin #Merkel hat @markrutte telefonisch gratuliert. "Ich freue mich auf weiter gute Zusammenarbeit als Freunde, Nachbarn, Europäer."

Schon!

@groenlinks
Iedereen die deze campagne geholpen heeft: DANKJEWEL!
Bouw mee aan onze beweging 👉 groenlinks.nl/lidworden .

Groot!

SwedishEdith · 15/03/2017 23:57

Has Hammond been the fall guy today to take attention away from Davis? Good timing for a U-turn.

Speaking of dickheads, our favourite one, Tim Martin will be on QT tomorrow moaning about why Brexit isn't fair for him. As if that isn't alcohol-inducing enough, Little Rees-Mogg is on as well.

Peregrina · 16/03/2017 00:03

Tim Martin will be on QT tomorrow moaning about why Brexit isn't fair for him.

The answer to this has to be "Suck it up".
It would almost be worth watching just to see a prominent Leaver moaning, but I don't think I'll bother. No doubt Dimbleby will give him lashings of sympathy.

woman12345 · 16/03/2017 00:11

The contemptuous way he dealt with Cherry

Yep, he talked over her, it was gruesome.

NS was good on channel 4 news, similarly describing May's behaviour.
Votes for SNP will be flooding in, and Mark Durkan exchange showed up poor judgement in DD's tone and dismissive replies.

Very bad move David.

I do wonder how much they're trying to ape Trump's demagogic contempt for rule of law, elected reps etc.

But bad move.

mathanxiety · 16/03/2017 02:37

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-elections-geert-wilders-us-backers-right-wing-conservative-think-tanks-a7629946.html
Already linked earlier, but worth another appearance. The possibility that it is actually right wing American bank accounts that are funding nationalist and right wing groups in Europe is one that needs investigation.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-39075502
The funding of the DUP's Leave campaign may warrant investigation too.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/revealed-group-that-funded-dups-425000-brexit-ad-campaign-35477951.html
I anticipate a good deal of money will flow east from American fundamentalist organisations and from right wing/Republican think tanks to the Scottish No side in any future Scottish referendum. There will also be homegrown fortunes spent via quiet little organisations whose main players keep a low profile:
www.autonomyscotland.org/who-are-the-union-backing-constitutional-research-council/

Following a few names that jumped out from those articles - here's an interesting slice of contemporary Conservative life:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Baker_(politician) Right Hon. Steven John Baker, MP., Conservative, Wycombe.
Since entering Parliament, he has campaigned against bail-outs for the financial sector and central banking, against the construction of High Speed 2, and against British membership of the European Union. In June 2015, he became co-chairman of Conservatives for Britain, a campaigning organisation formed of eurosceptic MPs, alongside Conservative MEP David Campbell Bannerman.

He co-founded The Cobden Centre, on which he sits on the advisory board. He established and chairs the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on Economics, Money and Banking and is vice-chair of the APPG for Aerospace. He sits on the Treasury Select Committee.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cobden_Centre
The Cobden Centre is a British economics think tank founded by Member of Parliament Steve Baker and entrepreneur Toby Baxendale. It is one of Europe’s foremost think tanks developed around the Austrian School of Economics. Contributors include MP Steve Baker, Professor Kevin Dowd, Gordon Kerr of Cobden Partners, MEP Dr Syed Kamall (the head of the Conservative group in the European Parliament), former Cambridge University lecturer Jamie Whyte and MP Douglas Carswell. The editor is Max Rangeley.
How interestingly the circles overlap.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatives_for_Britain
Conservatives for Britain is a Eurosceptic political pressure group within the Conservative Party of the United Kingdom.
The group's co-chairmen are David Campbell Bannerman, a Conservative member of the European Parliament who had previously served as deputy leader of the UK Independence Party and Steve Baker, a backbench Conservative member of parliament at Westminster. Other leaders include Nigel Lawson, the group's president, and Norman Lamont, both former cabinet ministers now in the House of Lords.
More overlapping circles...

lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=Austrian-economics
In economic theory, the term Austrian School stands for liberalism and laissez-faire-economics (where economic performance is optimised when there is limited government interference) - not big fans of welfare or too much regulation.

woman12345 · 16/03/2017 06:57

Thank you math was looking for these, and Cobden centre and Steve Baker are ones to watch.
Have been looking for cross over links to England from Freedom Centre, but presume the Atlantic Bridge organisation does that work for them.
Dutch election, although it's not completely good news, shows they can't buy democracy everywhere.Smile

woman12345 · 16/03/2017 07:09

And mazoltov to Hawaii judges for supporting blocking travel ban.
Good news day.Smile Trump's purple face makes me hope he sticks to his alleged diet of fast food and coke.

woman12345 · 16/03/2017 07:14

@mvanhulten
"This is a night, after Brexit, when we said 'no' to the wrong kind of populism." - Rutte #DutchElection

HesterThrale · 16/03/2017 07:19

BBC radio news now - Conservative Party fined £70,000 for electoral fraud.

woman12345 · 16/03/2017 07:20

A while ago, I remember hearing that Dutch teenage stoners used to enjoy watching HOC question time for a jolly good laugh. You have to wonder if they didn't have a similarly good chortle at DD's performance yesterday and going out to vote for the Green Links party. Dutch Labour is decimated, though.

At 2am on November 9th it looked like Hillary had just swung it in the US, I remember thinking that the trauma of brexit would have been worth it if it could save others from similar. Obviously that didn't work out, but politics is a long game.

Electoral commission has just fined conservative party for election expenses scandal. Potential 1yr jail sentences. Arguments over whether Conservative candidates or Conservative party responsible.

HashiAsLarry · 16/03/2017 07:40

I loved this:

David Schneider‏ @davidschneider 8m8 minutes ago
“Hurry! Hurry! General election for sale! Only £70,000! Offer ends soon!” #toryelectionfraud