Westministenders: Brexit Britain = Gridlock Britain ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

We keep getting told the Uk can get a deal like Canada, Turkey or other non-EU countries have, without FOM.
Those deals do not provide the same privileges as EU members:
They have quotas, restrictions and must obey EU regulations

e.g. After CETA, Ron Davidson, head of international trade for the Canadian Meat Council stated:
"We do not have what we would call commercially viable access to the European market".

The deal with Turkey abolished tariffs, but did not give free acess. This is what that means:

www.ft.com/content/b4458652-f42d-11e6-8758-6876151821a6

"On a recent Saturday at the Kapikule border crossing, about 30 minutes drive from the Turkish city of Edirne, a line of trucks 4km long stretched along the highway, inching along glacially towards the Bulgarian checkpoints.
"Today is a good day", said Ibrahim Kurtukcu, a 42-year trucker who had been waiting 14 hours.
"Last week the line was 7km long".
The record is 17km. It can take up to 30 hours to get through to the other side."

Of course, UK ports (and French ports) do not have the capacity, facilities, storage space or trained staff to handle customs processing of the vast amount of British exports & imports.

Building this additional capacity - where ? - would take several years and there are no signs that even the planning stage has started.

Oh yes that's right. She can't possibly say that with any meaningful information to back it up. It ideological fantasy. Aka as fascism.

But of course DD hasn't looked at EHIC - because we are going to retain all the rights we have at present, just not have to pay, and pick and choose which bits of EU policies we do want.
The real answer is "We don't know". Long before we were even part of the EEC we didn't need visas to go to western Europe, and there used to be a cheapo passport called a British Visitors Passport, to facilitate travel there, so we may go back to those rules. Or not! However, with such First Class Negotiators as Mayhem and Davis, how can negotiations possibly go wrong?

MN was toxic towards independence last time around. If you'd used it as indicative of support for/against independence, the No vote would have been about 80%

I'm resolutely refusing to get involved in such threads this time around. I know quite a few Indy supporting friends who feel the same (or who even left MN at the time).

Ian Dunt this time more cheerleading from me

DD admits that the deal "may" require ratifications from all member states. So to be clear: He wants to negotiate EU divorce,
comprehensive trade deal, transitional terms AND have deal ratified in every EU member state parliament. In two years.
I pray this man is lying. Because if he actually believes this stuff, we are in serious trouble.

He wants to negotiate EU divorce, comprehensive trade deal, transitional terms AND have deal ratified in every EU member state parliament. In two years.

This is the way they work. Theresa May has neglected the Devolved Governments and Countries and now thinks that a two week tour will be enough to bring them into line onside. Who do you think you are kidding Mrs Mayhem? (Sung to the Dad's Army tune.)

Prettybird, MN was toxic toward anyone who was for Yes or who was for Leave.

I'm a unionist (I know you're not, but that's ok! ), but I cannot stand the superiority arguments that abound.

If unionists pursue a Project Fear again, it will push many undecideds toward independence.
It just paints independence supporters as little more than parasites with the begging bowl out and that couldn't be further from the truth.
It's not, and has never been, about what's the economically more fruitful option, it's all about sovereignty and not being bullied by England.

Scotland may have voted for UK to remain in the EU, but I am not anywhere near convinced that Scotland would vote for Scotland to be part of the EU.

Have a look at Faisal Islam on Twitter right now for the rest of David Davis' responses to the committee. It's a shocker.

I cannot stand the superiority arguments that abound

What like being against fascism and racism?
Scotland and NI will vote with their consciences, unlike the brexiteers. You can buy some votes but you can't buy morality.

Kaija it is . This is the 'we don't give a fuck' school of government in practice. Or fascism.

It's a shocker.
Probably the nicest way of putting it. The admission that there's no backing behind the no deal is better than a bad one because they haven't looked into it is pretty fucking terrible. Not that they have appeared to looked into anything. Omnishambles is too nice a way of putting it too.

Think it might be more we don't have a clue than we don't give a fuck, but either way it's pretty nightmarish.

I cannot stand the superiority arguments that abound
What like being against fascism and racism?
Scotland and NI will vote with their consciences, unlike the brexiteers. You can buy some votes but you can't buy morality.

Case in point re superiority.

Prettybird, MN was toxic toward anyone who was for Yes or who was for Leave.

MN was also toxic towards anyone who was for Remain.

"No deal is better than a bad deal" has nothing to do with the economy, don't be so silly.

It's all about the feelz. We will feel we have our sovereignty back.

They haven't looked at the economic ramifications of 'no deal' because they simply don't matter.

Prettybird, I can assure you that Scottish Independence supporters will have a lot more sympathy from England than in Indyref1. Personally I was avidly anti-independence and the night of the result held my son who was still a baby saying I hope that his country wasn't ripped to bits.

Now, the damage is done. The country is ripped to bits and economically screwed and stability thrown away. Now is the time to do it if its going to happen, and I can fully appreciate why Scotland might want to look after itself in a different way. Its no longer about the economic argument.

'Project Fear' will have no traction. I struggle to see how you can make a positive case to stay in the union right now. Maybe this is Boris Johnson logic, but he won the EU ref, so the government are fully justified in being concerned about another ref.

It would be far better to concede and reform the relationship with the rest of the UK, but if the rest of the UK is unwilling to do this.... (Oh the ringing irony of Leavers who oppose the principles and ideas behind the ref and make similar criticisms of the EU). If we follow the same logic it is far worse for the rest of the UK than it is for Scotland to have no deal...

Its rather like the SNP holding up a mirror to Brexiteers and them wilting like blood sucking vampires.

It would be funny, if I weren't British.

At this point I'm expecting someone to ask if they know how to trigger article 50 and for DD to say 'I haven't looked into it'.

Why was the meaningful vote amendment so important? Because the one's leading from the front haven't even looked at the basics yet.

Ian Dunt‏*@IanDunt*
Burt: What have your studies told you about the value to the UK of migration? DD: Nothing yet but this is why I have started highlighting

.........

.............

Anyone? I'm speechless.

Mumsnet was divided in the Remain and Leave groups and still is. botj sides were passionate and there were numerous heated discussions over the last few months.
There is good reason for the other thread where tired souls like me have gathered to mourn it all in silence. I was terribly tired and still am. I am just trying to work hard o make sure I do my bit so I could tell my children I was working hard when it was needed.

Brexit Committee is watching a surly teenage who hasn't bothered to do him homework, not a leading government minister. Having Harry Enfield sat there going "I dunno" wouldn't be much different.

At this point I'm expecting someone to ask if they know how to trigger article 50 and for DD to say 'I haven't looked into it'.
I can't believe this. There is shitload of money to be made obviously. A reason good enough for Tories.

Brexit Committee is watching a surly teenage who hasn't bothered to do him homework, not a leading government minister. Having Harry Enfield sat there going "I dunno" wouldn't be much different.
He really doesn't look like he wants to be there, like he shouldn't have to be scrutinised in such a way. And its not even tough scrutinising FFS. Richard and Judy would ask more harsh questions.

semi where do you stand in terms of moral relativism, racism and 'superiority' (your word) on this?

A road sign discovered in a Jewish-dominated part of North London that appeared to warn passers-by to “beware of Jews” has been removed

A parody of DD today but sadly one that made more sense and sounds like he's got a hint of a plan:

First we tax the pigeons. Foreign pigeons come here and don't pay tax, that must be stopped
We will use the royal trade yacht to pulnder bullion from poorly guarded foreign ports
From now on if you want to go on holiday anywhere in the EU you will be tried for treason
Buy British. Eat British. Live British. Thinking of eating a croissant? No. Eat a squirrel instead

Remember all those proposed amendments to the a50 bill which required impact assessments....

I did say that they didn't want these amendments precisely because they hadn't done impact assessments. And they don't want to do them, because it quantifies something they don't want quantifying. In the same way that Trump doesn't want things quantifying. Its because you can then oppose more easily. And yes this is a sign of fascism. Fascism is always empty and devoid of any substance or political direction other than a hatred of 'the other'. Always.

Its rather like the SNP holding up a mirror to Brexiteers and them wilting like blood sucking vampire

YY to that.