Westministenders: Brexit Britain = Gridlock Britain ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

We keep getting told the Uk can get a deal like Canada, Turkey or other non-EU countries have, without FOM.
Those deals do not provide the same privileges as EU members:
They have quotas, restrictions and must obey EU regulations

e.g. After CETA, Ron Davidson, head of international trade for the Canadian Meat Council stated:
"We do not have what we would call commercially viable access to the European market".

The deal with Turkey abolished tariffs, but did not give free acess. This is what that means:

www.ft.com/content/b4458652-f42d-11e6-8758-6876151821a6

"On a recent Saturday at the Kapikule border crossing, about 30 minutes drive from the Turkish city of Edirne, a line of trucks 4km long stretched along the highway, inching along glacially towards the Bulgarian checkpoints.
"Today is a good day", said Ibrahim Kurtukcu, a 42-year trucker who had been waiting 14 hours.
"Last week the line was 7km long".
The record is 17km. It can take up to 30 hours to get through to the other side."

Of course, UK ports (and French ports) do not have the capacity, facilities, storage space or trained staff to handle customs processing of the vast amount of British exports & imports.

Building this additional capacity - where ? - would take several years and there are no signs that even the planning stage has started.

Daft comment Peregrina. TM is not implicated in the quest for Scottish independence. (Well, perhaps by dint of being a Tory). The SNP were elected with that intention.

And Scotland is not being taken out of EU against its will. The referendum was nationwide, one person one vote. There were not separate representations by SEnIW.

Misti, I agree with you on loads of stuff and I understand why you were pissed off with not getting to vote in the ref, but in these cases I really believe that it should be resident citizens who get to vote on the future of the country the are citizens of, and live in.

LH - that appears to be the sum of it - Tory party first, last and in between.

I don't know how I feel about Scottish Independence or a United Ireland, but I do know that I want to see this whole thing damage the Tory party irrevocably. I won't be shedding any tears for May when she falls from grace which she will do, sooner or later, with all political careers ending in failure.

I might be waiting a long time.

"Idle speculation again, but would the UK retain it's veto during A50 ?"

Interesting Lurking, but I think that if WM tried to stop Scotland staying in the EU after an Indyref win, against the wishes of Scotland and the E27, there would be hell to pay.

the double standards/cognitive dissonance is breathtaking isn't it Misti?

I have just eaten a massive plate of biscuits and feel marginally better 😊
Thank you for the sympathy.
My poor Mum is going to be bedside herself 😞
I got so so angry last night - Jeremy fucking corbyn protesting over EU citizens rights after just sending the A50 bill through with no amendments???? The fact he didn't show up to his own protest is neither here nor there. 🙄

There. Are. No. Words. That adequately express my utter disgust at him and the PLP today.

I don't expect any better from the tories tbh but the bloody opposition!!??

And then this morning on another thread a leave voter bemoaning what's happened and emigrating to the US.

Well. How lovely for them. What about the rest of us left to paddle in the brexit quagmire!? Nice that some leave voters get the choice I guess.

I'm trying to work up the enthusiasm for writing to my MP wrt to Mum but tbh I will
Leave it for a while....if I say what I want to ATM I may need bail money!!
😀

I don't know how I feel about Scottish Independence or a United Ireland,

The fact that those two phrases would have been almost unique on MN pre-23rd June speaks for itself.

As Feared predicted, Brexit is leading to a permanent change in the Union. Even if the UK survives as the UK.

And the way that the

the double standards/cognitive dissonance is breathtaking isn't it
I'm loving the arguments that the SNP wanted independence anyway. Well yes they did, but that doesn't mean you lay all the tools to achieve it out at their feet then expect them never to touch them.

This is all supposing TM remains intact as PM 'till Brexit. Will the tory knives stay in the scabbards before the claymore is unleashed.

I agree with clegg re may.
Her own hubris will be her downfall.
I'm disappointed in Clarke tbh
Does his vote last night mean that promises have been made behind the scenes?
If so, what?

I remember no objection from Brexiters to Commonwealth citizens having a vote in June, but now they have strong opinions about who will be granted the vote in a new Scottish referendum!

badders. Miep Gies safe house is needed for all the EU residents here.

May's just won what centuries of Scots and Irish have been fighting for: independence. Her 'sovereignty' is going to be over a very small nation unless she wants to revert to type and keep the union united over the barrel of a gun.

Its very simple without Brexit NS would have no remit for a second referendum. As a pp has stated she has been handed the opportunity on a plate. Scots have the right to genuine grievance over Brexit, as do those in Northern Ireland. At least they have an escape route which I'd expect them to use within 20 years. Its English based remainers up shits creek without a paddle.

Actually badders I might follow you and get some cakes that I'm not supposed to eat
I was at the GP this am and they took my blood pressure. Which is high. I'm wondering why......

I feel for your mum badders. Has she looked at getting the permanent residence card at all?? I'm still in the process as I'm struggling to get the full continuous years

I have just thanked my MP for voting for the Lord's amendments.

It's hard to see FPTP surviving.

I sincerely hope that this is a casualty - reform is long overdue. Even if it does mean that some undesirables like UKIP get elected. The problem is, at present we can't really detect which are true votes and which are tactical.

The Tories lost 19,000 votes in the Witney by election. Although it would be nice to believe that there was a sudden enthusiasm for Liberal Democracy, truthfully, I don't think it was, but tactical voting coming into play.

True ghost

I don't think so re citizenship but then again she is in a very different situation now than she was in the 80s when thatcher tried to get rid of the Irish.

Who knows?

Just had this response to the petition I signed:
“Pay £350m per week to NHS or re-run EU Referendum”.

Government responded:

The country voted to leave the European Union in a referendum approved by an Act of Parliament.

We will not seek to retain partial or associate membership of the European Union by remaining members of the Single Market. Instead, we will pursue a new strategic partnership with the EU, including an ambitious and comprehensive Free Trade Agreement and a new customs agreement. We will get the best deal for the UK, and will continue to support our NHS.

The Government has committed to spend an additional £10bn a year by 2020 to ensure the NHS continues to deliver care to those who need it and to deliver a truly 7 day service.

The Government is focused on securing the best possible deal for the United Kingdom as we leave the European Union. Once we have left it will be for us to decide how taxpayers' money is spent. We have been clear that, once we leave the EU, we will not be required to pay vast contributions to the EU budget.

The country voted to leave the European Union, and it is the duty of the Government to make sure we do just that. We will not be seeking to retain membership of the Single Market. Instead, we see a bold and ambitious Free Trade Agreement with the European Union, covering tariff and barrier-free trade in goods and services, as offering the fullest possible access to the European market for UK companies.

Department for Exiting the European Union

I can't see that repeating sections makes it a more coherent response. Either way, it's sunlit uplands and unicorns again - we will leave the single market, but the rEU will fall over themselves to give us what we want.

I need to look into it tbh but I haven't the heart today 😞
She is lived in the uk since she was 18
She has worked ft or pt from them til she has to retire through ill health at 60
She owns her home
She has some savings
All her family are here.
I'm hoping that's enough but....

Badders

I remember there being strong union sentiment (in England) during the troubles. There has been 15 or so years of peace in NI and there seems less interest in defending the union now. I think NI and Scots leavers are going to release they are patsies in England's Brexit game.

Pound plummets and Carney's ally quits.

@bbckamal
Charlotte Hogg, talked of as a possible first female governor of the Bank, quits @bankofengland after critical report by TSC

Have a look at these free guides
www.freemovement.org.uk/free-ebook-application-guides-for-eu-citizens/
They are very clear and will help understand well what she will need.

She will have somewhere 5 years of working that will entitled her to the PRC. It doesn't have to be last 5 years.

Thanks green
You have no idea how important this little corner of mn has become to me!

I'm off out for lunch today with an aunt I haven't seen for a long time. She was very good to me when I was young but politically she is to the right of Stalin so I may resort to alcohol at some point 🍸🍺🍹🥃😀

Charlotte Hogg has been hoist by her own petard, I think, by failing to declare that her brother had a key position in Barclays Bank.

I am not shedding any tears for members of Tory families - although I think Lord Hogg may have voted for the Lord's amendments? So maybe they do have some who have principles still.