Westministenders: Brexit Britain = Gridlock Britain ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

We keep getting told the Uk can get a deal like Canada, Turkey or other non-EU countries have, without FOM.
Those deals do not provide the same privileges as EU members:
They have quotas, restrictions and must obey EU regulations

e.g. After CETA, Ron Davidson, head of international trade for the Canadian Meat Council stated:
"We do not have what we would call commercially viable access to the European market".

The deal with Turkey abolished tariffs, but did not give free acess. This is what that means:

www.ft.com/content/b4458652-f42d-11e6-8758-6876151821a6

"On a recent Saturday at the Kapikule border crossing, about 30 minutes drive from the Turkish city of Edirne, a line of trucks 4km long stretched along the highway, inching along glacially towards the Bulgarian checkpoints.
"Today is a good day", said Ibrahim Kurtukcu, a 42-year trucker who had been waiting 14 hours.
"Last week the line was 7km long".
The record is 17km. It can take up to 30 hours to get through to the other side."

Of course, UK ports (and French ports) do not have the capacity, facilities, storage space or trained staff to handle customs processing of the vast amount of British exports & imports.

Building this additional capacity - where ? - would take several years and there are no signs that even the planning stage has started.

Oh, playng rough: I suspect the govt couldn't claw back uni loans from expats, for those who still have payments remaining

Today British MPs voted for turning the lives of these people upside down. They came here legally, in good faith as friends and we are now showing them that they are nothing to us.

Agree with every word of your post, Lalelou

BigChoc could you please stop selling me about the living abroad option when I can't move back to my home country (or not wo major issues)?

Gina of Arc promises to ride to our rescue:

While peers have been debating the article 50 bill, Gina Miller, who brought the court case that led to the supreme court saying the government would have to pass the article 50 bill, has been speaking at a meeting of Islington in Europe.

She said that, if there was no vote in parliament at the end of the Brexit talks, she would take the government back to court. She said:

"What has been done is like an act of war. It will change the course of history. They have forgotten about conscience, principle and our country. In 18 months time, when they come back from Europe with a deal or no deal, if there is no vote in parliament and an act of parliament, I will take them back to court."

gina of arc

Just hope she doesn't end up like Joan, though I'm fairly sure she's had threats like that already

Lalelou also agree with your post, it's a travesty.

There will be an exodus to Scotland and Ireland from this country.

And to add to Gina lala

^Dominic Grieve, the former Conservative attorney general, said: “I can promise them, if they don’t follow proper constitutional process, there will be litigation – and that litigation will hold matters up.”

Vowing not to support the Government, he added: “I am afraid I’m not prepared to follow processes which appear to me to be, frankly, deranged.”^

Lalelou - you put it more eloquently than I could. Completely agree.

You are fiendishly paranoid LH

No.

My father grew up under fascists .

woman - but Dominic Grieve didn't vote against the government, did he? Fine words.

Separation of powers, lala? Legal remedy where there's no legislative one with no opposition? I don't know enough about it, but we're now relying on a working mum to defend the constitution through the courts.

Sorry, that sounded a bit snarky. The was at DG not you, woman. The HoL look like they are going to decide not to have another vote - as you said, Gina Miller is the one person standing between us and the abyss. Christ, that woman has got balls.

I'm very amused by Leavers on the IndyRef thread now using the opposite logic to argue why Scottish Independence is a Bad Thing.

Reported tonight in The Telegraph:
Nicola Sturgeon’s blueprint for a separate Scotland faltered within hours of her referendum announcement after it was confirmed it would start life outside the European Union and Nato.

The European Commission said the so-called 'Barroso doctrine' continued to apply, meaning a separate Scotland would have to make a fresh application under Article 49 of the Lisbon Treaty, a process that can take many years.

Jose Manuel Barroso, the former commission president, set out the legal view that if one part of an existing EU country became an independent state it would have to apply for membership.

Jean Claude Juncker, his successor, has previously made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the EU.

Separately, Nato said that a new independent state would have to apply for membership and the 28 existing “allies” would have to consider it.

Although the SNP reversed its long-standing opposition to Nato in the run-up to the 2014 referendum, any Scottish application may be damaged by the party’s opposition to allowing Britain’s nuclear deterrent to stay on the Clyde.

It is thought that Nicola Sturgeon would be unable to start negotiations until Scotland was a sovereign state, a process that could take several years after a vote for separation.

Jack of Kent or David Allen Green has a new blog posting out discussing whether MPs are representatives or delegates. My understanding is that he was a Leave voter.

MPs like mine, have decided, for now, at least, that they are still representatives because they are quite happy to vote for Brexit in a Remain constituency.

Tartan tories. Eeeeeowwwfftz What's more interesting lala( no problem, didn't see the 'snarky') is how May 'whipped' her party. I wonder how they were persuaded, including those for imminent retirement. It looks like no more voting for MPs with their consciences or brains.

I really don't think anyone could say with certainty what would happen to Scotland and EU membership.

Would Scotland have to join NATO - does it want to? Ireland isn't a member, I gather.

I believe DAG was a reluctant Remainer. Thanks for the link.

All hail the leader of the Opposition, Gina Miller

International Trade Secretary Liam Fox denied sending out a controversial tweet about Europe, while sitting in front of a giant picture of it.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liam-fox-tweet-photo-on-screen-as-tory-minister-denies-sending-it-a7626841.html

LH It must be grim to fear history repeating itself for another generation of your family
My late mother's huge extended family in the ME has been forced out (like most other Coptic Christians) almost all to US & Canada.
They are all mc professionals, again like many Copts - a brain drain that has been largely ignored, but has siggificant economic effects.

Green I feel so sorry for non-UK citizens who can't return to their country of origin.
However, I was recommending that UK citizens move abroad - anywhere, E27, Australia, USA, wherever they have the opportunity.
If you are young, GO
If you have DC newly qualified, send them abroad if you can, for a better future.
The Brexit brain drain started 24 June.

"Sauve qui peut" !

"Jose Manuel Barroso, the former commission president, set out the legal view that if one part of an existing EU country became an independent state it would have to apply for membership."

I think the point is whether Scotland can remain within the EU, while the rest of the UK leaves. This is very different from the Barroso doctrine. Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its will. There is no precedent for this.

I suspect Scotland is more useful to NATO than vice versa.

Dominic Grieve In a Feb article in legal magazine Counsel:

"The best estimate is that there are now at least 40,000 legal acts, 15,000 court verdicts and 62,000 international standards binding on us by virtue of EU membership,

‘It affects private rights such as intellectual property and data protection…
Then there ar eall those other areas… that confer rights on us as EU citizens, in areas such as freedom of movement and of capital and rights of establishment, voting rights for EU Parliament, anti-discrimination laws, competition law and human rights."

metro.co.uk/2017/02/01/eu-law-will-still-bind-us-even-after-brexit-6419514/#ixzz4bFMz0pdW

Now passed through HoL

One might take the view that England & Wales are leaving Scotland and NI, who are in the EU - who could choose to let them remain.
Hence why NS wants Indy2 before Brexit