Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

Yes - it is like they have in their heads it is one big nightmare country, that old EU, not individual countries - no wonder they voted out.

Yes that is exactly what I think and it is getting more and more like that as time goes by... other member states will follow I think.

I think the EU is hoping to drag out the negotiating process because both France and Germany have absolutely no idea where they are going politically on the domestic front let alone in the EU. This is why on balance I think bilateral deals will work better than the HoL amendment, which as others have noted, does not have unqualified support from supporters of Eu nationals within the UK and has lots of scope to introduce limitations.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/01/lords-defeat-government-over-rights-of-eu-citizens-in-uk-brexit-bill

I think British brexiters vastly overstate the idea that France and Germany are about to be overtaken by anti EU forces. Merkel's main opposition is a very popular, pro-EU social democrat. Le Pen's main opposition is a very pro-EU social democrat. While no one can rule out the unexpected in France (despite Le Pen currently being subject to at least two separate criminal investigations), the most probable outcome of this year's elections is that both German and France will have broadly centrist, pro EU governments under Merkel or Schultz, and Macron.

The EU also has important reasons to want negotiations completed next year, ahead of the next elections to the EU parliament, and to bring clarity to budgeting processes. The only side dragging its heels is the UK.

I suspect Leasdom's dislike of EU billboards is because they say
"This [whatever scheme] was enabled by a grant from the EU." Noticeably highlighting that Westminster isn't concerned about regional investment.

There could still have been a unilateral agreement - it's not impossible.

I take it british citizens are confident that they will have their residing country's leader/parliament/fellow citizens standing in their corner? if so then it's going to be fine and there will be no problem.

I would have thought it best to err on the side of caution with an agreement that works both ways, especially given that we haven't left yet so the manure has not yet hit the ventilation.

France will have broadly centrist, pro EU governments under Merkel or Schultz, and Macron

I suppose it could be Juppé if the right manage to oust Fillon in time. But by British standards he's also a pro-EU centrist. For the purposes of this thread, Juppé or Macron is irrelevant.

time non-EU immigration is not within the competences of the EU, it is an issue that is decided by member states. So spin it however you want: it could conceivably become an EU matter by unanimous agreement between EU27, but they do all individually have to sign up to it.

Heartily sick of a bunch of anti-immigration zealots telling me, an immigrant, what's best for me.

Well you sound a charming person Misti - I am not going to converse further with someone who thinks like that - have a nice day.

I think that British "immigrants" will be far better treated by the respective govts of their countries of residence than their EU counterparts tbh
So I wouldn't worry too much were I living in an EU bloc nation
But EU citizens living here?
I would be feeling very worried

The uk has had to jump through several hoops, because of court challenges etc so is hardly dragging it's heels.

It was in the interests of uk and eu citizens that an early agreement could be made on the rights of expats. If TM could have got the eu to agree with permission from member states then that would have been in everyones interests. Inluding eu expats in the uk.
We will see what happens, pressure within the bloc is certainly mounting.

non-EU immigration is not within the competences of the EU,
Unless of course you sign on with FOM

Yer Oh good an echo chamber. No a place of debate, where leavers are welcome to debate, there are some good exchanges on here, but ad hominem argument and outright attacks get called out...........

Heartily sick of a bunch of anti-immigration zealots telling me, an immigrant, what's best for me.

Misti perhaps people,who wish for a unilateral deal are not ant-immigration at all. Perhaps you are being extremely rude and it is uncalled for. Are you still there chocolate

If TM could have got the eu to agree with permission from member states then that would have been in everyones interests. Inluding eu expats in the uk.

Perhaps if Theresa May and Johnson had gone with a less belligerent and insulting attitude they might find the other nations more willing to discuss with them? As it is, the Government has carried on behaving like a spoilt child having a tantrum and in the end the others have realised that they can't be reasoned with and have had enough.

time not charming: an angry, disenfranchised Briton. But one who is prepared to have a reasonable discussion with any brexiter prepared to debate in good faith and without claiming insincerely to represent my interests as a migrant.

That is not the case, but even if that is your perception.

The eu were not being rational or considerate towards their citizens by not considering an agreement, which would have been in their interests. In my view that is very childish of the EU.

Donations to LibDems overtake those to Labour. Still a good way behind the Tories.

The Electoral Commission data also reveals that Ukip raised just £33k, less than the Green Party and Co-operative Party.

I am not interested in your interests personaly misti. You sound quite nasty actually so I hope you are allowed to stay.

I am interested in my friends who live abroad and on behalf of my best friend here who is polish though.

Timeforchocolate please come back

Shhhh now misti. You know your actual existence doesn't matter. Its a fact after all, and not feelings based enough.

Donations to LibDems overtake those to Labour.

In the 30+ years since I could vote, I've never joined, nor donated to a political party ... that might change soon.

Yes, those of us who are UK expats in the E27 welcome the HoL decision.
Some Brexiters, who don't seem to know much about UK expats, are expressing faux concern

All UK expats I know, see the HoL amendment as positive

Brexiters seem to think that making E27 expats feel insecure puts pressure on their govts to give us a better deal
It doesn't.
It just worsens the damage to the Uk reputation