Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

And good news re: the Lords yesterday.

Saw this yesterday. With car makers saying they want investment in car parts supply chain in the UK, maybe spreadsheet Phil will take a big bold look at the tax rules? It would certainly incentivize companies to open up here.

news.sky.com/story/uk-should-adopt-trump-style-border-tax-says-former-chancellor-lord-lawson-10786052

article re: above but you can click on

news.sky.com/story/uk-should-adopt-trump-style-border-tax-says-former-chancellor-lord-lawson-10786052

I really don't think Brexiters who oppose the amendment understand the very different approach to UK citizens in EU from European countries. UK citizens have not suffered any hassle, are not portrayed as scroungers in the press and are not even referred to as immigrants. They are EU citizens.

Yes yes yes! Most of the EU is puzzled by the idea that EU citizens in UK are thought of as immigrants in the same way that someone from say Sunderland who moves to Somerset is not called an immigrant.

I really want to be hopeful about the vote in the House of Lords.

But I just can't bring myself to believe it. They will just throw it out won't they?

Even if they don't a lot of people aren't actually eligible for right to stay.

So even if the Anne smelt stays in we will still get enough deportations to satisfy the blood lust won't we?

*ammendment

Yay for the new thread. Thanks Red.

I'd love it if some one more knowledgeable about farming jumped in here, but a couple of things spring out from the Leadsome 'document'.

"So, in the next few months, up to £120 million will be made available to help support rural growth".
when atm £65 m per week in EU subsidy?

"No more 6 foot EU billboards littering the landscape".
I've noticed more national front/ ukip ones on rich farms.
No more existential debates to determine what counts as a bush, a hedge, or a tree

• This means destroying hedgerows( wildlife corridors, and remnants of ancient woodlands which used to cover Britain, absolutely imperative for wildlife)

"And no more, ridiculous, bureaucratic three-crop rule".

My sense is that in farming there are 2 types of farmer:
Duke of Westminster types who nevertheless get EU subsidies;
And those living in utter penury, maintaining their farms out of loyalty to the land and family, completely reliant on about to be removed EU subsidy.
There's been talk of sheep disappearing from the landscape, and I suspect that there will be mass by up of farming land by food manufacturers, affecting both the bio diversity of the landscape (I don't think they'll be organic) and the price of cheese.

'bread and votes' I think was once a slogan.
Both look like they have been stolen.

LadyOhDearOhDear thanks for posting it, and I'm ready for my Norwegian quiz now misti (there are so many things I am not going to say about trolls. except I was wondering when we'd get to the point when you said what you did at 8.36, please stand for office )

Most of the EU is puzzled by the idea that EU citizens in UK are thought of as immigrants in the same way that someone from say Sunderland who moves to Somerset is not called an immigrant.

Exactly jaws and Annie!

Cake I think you have put your finger on the danger in the HoL amendment. By seeking to spell out and define the situation too early it could well be the case that EU Nationals in certain circumstances might get a worse deal - the UK has not applied strict interpretation of Treaty rules to date but could opt to do so for political reasons if the issue gets dragged into the realms of point scoring - this Government ,and indeed Parliament as a whole in recent years, has been very good at turning a blind eye to collateral damage.

Andrew Neil ran out of time yesterday but seemed pretty definite that there were bilateral talks well progressed with Spain and Poland and I would also assume Ireland. These deals could provide a blueprint which it would then be difficult for rEU to reject and would likely be more favourable than strict Treaty rules.

Most of the EU is puzzled by the idea that EU citizens in UK are thought of as immigrants in the same way that someone from say Sunderland who moves to Somerset is not called an immigrant

Also agree.

Maybe that is why, supposedly Britain has a special relationship with the US, there is a deeply entrenched parochialism in both cultures, whereas Europeans have had no choice but to assimilate American culture.

Many British people do not stir from their 'manor' physically (including when they go on holiday) intellectually or culturally. Middle America is as estranged from the coastal cities.

Oh good :) an echo chamber.

I would have liked to see the rights of British citizens abroad unilaterally agreed.

I have genuine concern that this will not happen now.

The NFU’s response to Leadsom’s speech in Oxford

Speaking at the Oxford Farming Conference today, Defra Secretary of State Andrea Leadsom pledged to cut red tape and regulation - in particular the three crop rule.

NFU President Meurig Raymond said: “The Secretary of State has said she will be looking to scrap the rules that hold back farming as she works with Government on the UK’s exit from the EU. The NFU has long argued for the removal of burdensome red tape that hampers farming businesses from doing what they do best – producing great, quality, British food. In particular, the commitment to end the three crop rule will be particularly welcomed by farmers.

“However, whilst we welcome the Secretary of State’s commitment to reduce red tape after leaving the EU, there are more immediate concerns that need addressing and it is disappointing that there is no further clarity on access to the single market, how farms will continue to have access to a reliable workforce and what the ambitions are for a future domestic agricultural policy.

“To ensure that British food and farming continues to have a viable future outside the EU, farmers need to know what future trading arrangements will look like with the EU and beyond. They need to know where they will be able to recruit their workforce from and what a domestic agricultural policy will look like post-Brexit. All of these vital issues will need clarifying as soon as possible. Many farm businesses operate long-term business plans and will be making decisions now without knowing the environment they will be operating in. Therefore, we reiterate our call for clarity on these issues and a commitment to ensuring a competitive, productive and profitable future for the British food and farming sector: one which will benefit all for years to come.”

www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/sos-red-tape-pledge-welcome-but-nfu-looks-to-more-immediate-concerns/

"I would have liked to see the rights of British citizens abroad unilaterally agreed."

Unilaterally agreed by whom? They are in different countries!

In other words: great that your removing one set of burdens but shame you've got no plan to not just add on a different set in its place.

I would have liked to see the rights of British citizens abroad unilaterally agreed.

Can't be done. There are 27 nations involved.

As a broad rule of thumb, if people who are anti-immigration are upset about an immigration measure, then it's probably good news for immigrants. Conversely, if they support it, then it's probably bad news for immigrants.

Immigrants, both EU in the UK, and Brits in the EU, are broadly happy about yesterday's Lords' judgements. Brexiters are broadly very unhappy about it. This tells us that the judgement was most likely good for immigrants and bad for brexiters.

Any brexiter claiming to have the best interests of migrants at heart is deluded or lying. Take your pick.

Unilaterally agreed by whom? They are in different countries!

They're all NotHere, aka Forrin, aren't they?

There is no reason why the EU could not have put in the effort to speak to member states with a view to unilateral agreements being made. It was the right thing to do.

The EU is patiently waiting for our own negotiating position to be weakened by people in our own country. It will make things a lot easier for them, when they want to give us a substandard agreement, leaving expats in limbo.

Ironically those same people will smugly announce that it is the government's fault if the deal is unsuitable.

Poor Greece still in the sh*t. From the Guardian's live business feed:

Moving over to Greece now, where the main opposition leader says the government is deliberately drawing out negotiations with creditors and preparing the country for a fourth bailout.

From Athens our correspondent Helena Smith reports:

Seven years after it was granted its first emergency loan programme, Greece is being prepared for a fourth bailout, says Kyriakos Mitsotakis, who heads the main opposition centre right New Democracy party.

In a wide ranging interview aired on Ant 1 TV on Wednesday night, the politician said prime minister Alexis Tsipras’ acceptance of further pension cuts and tax reforms was tantamount to a new adjustment programme that New Democracy would not be backing.

This government cannot get the country out of the impasse it is in. We will have additional measures that will reduce the tax-free threshold and reduce pensions. Mr Tsipras is encumbering citizens with the bill. He is not moving ahead with reforms. He can’t create jobs or attract investments. In essence he is bringing a fourth bailout through the backdoor.

Mitsotakis, who held talks in Berlin with the German chancellor Angela Merkel recently, said the leftist government was deliberately delaying bailout talks with creditors.

The [second bailout] review should have been concluded a year ago. The government is consciously delaying [it] for reasons of domestic consumption. There is a big danger that entry into the [ECB’s] quantitative easing [programme] will be missed.

The spectre of yet more cuts has caused rising alarm in Greece with pensioners taking to the streets. It comes as the Cologne Institute for Economic research says poverty in Greece has shot up by 40 % between 2008 and 2015.

“Greece is the big loser,” the think tank said in its latest study on the European economy, pointing out that the increase was the biggest among EU member states.

And this re: Italy - read the last paragraph, 40% youth unemployment....so sad.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/berlusconi-back-eurozone-idea-isnt-completely-barmy/

Well the good thing about this is that it's easy to see who had the empathy removal

The EU is patiently waiting for our own negotiating position to be weakened by people in our own country.

No - the EU is following its own rules of not entering into negotiations until Article 50 is triggered. The EU is patiently waiting for the UK to do that some nine months after the (then) Prime Minister declared it would be done the day after the referendum. I happen to think the delay was the right thing to do but that doesn't take away from the fact that the rules exist and - surprise! - they apply them. This entire situation is a mess of the UK's own making - to complain that the EU isn't breaking the rules is one of the many reasons that far from begging us to stay, the EU will probably be glad to see the back of us.