Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

Not really sure what the Independent is trying to do with the Tebbit bashing, but it's not reflecting well on them.

... The Independent would have been better served by pointing out Tebbit's infamous support for getting on your bike to better yourself.

Tebbit, who accused the House of Lords of “thinking of nothing but the rights of foreigners” employed immigrants in his home, it has been claimed"

Equality Act 2010
Harassment
(1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if—

(a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and

(b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of—

(i)violating B's dignity, or

(ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

Re pensions etc...

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/774230/Brexit-David-Davis-EU-nationals-rights-complex-House-of-Lords-vote-Article-50-Bill

So you see that what the government has some issues with - pensions and benefits etc... that eu citizens will have access to after Brexit.
What they are saying is that it is NOT obvious if eu citizens will still get a pensions after leaving the eu, or if they will have access to the benefit system etc,.. (think all about all the benefits that people on low income get too). And they are saying is that it is totally possible that eu citizens will ave paid their taxes like everyone else but might not have access to the NHS, benefits or pensions!! I would call that theft but you know....

It is worth highlighting that eu citizens ALREADY have a restricted access to some benefits (e.g. JSA is only available for 6 months and they can't get council housing) so that would be the logical continuation of whatbis already in place.

The downside to that rethoric is that people, regardless of their regime, who are on low income can only carry on living with their wage THANKS TO said benefits. (Remember 40% of people have a wage below £18k)
How on earth thenuk is going to attract low wage workers to work as carers and the like wo access to benefits, i don't know.
I'm also wondering how it can be ethically ok to ask people to pay for NHS, education, benefits and pensions to them tell them that actually they have no access to it ?....

Strange days when someone who describes themselves as being on the left thinks hard right Tory peers making xenophobic speeches shouldn't be "bashed"

That is ridiculous math

If I am judged with a load of xenophobes by the same coin you could be judged with a load of terrorists ( I am sure there a re a few terrorists who like the freeish borders)

That attitude is a shit one

Lico wasn't there a time when you could transfer your pension from one eu country back to your 'home' country?

How on earth thenuk is going to attract low wage workers to work as carers and the like wo access to benefits, i don't know.
Or racist old tories' carers are going to be difficult to find RedAndYellowPeppers

If this government is going to make accessing British EU citizens' pensions difficult, the potential for other EU countries to make it very difficult for British citizens is serious.

Not a good move, and sorry it's such a worry. May, Davis and Fox are clearly well out of their depth, and the truth will out.

In politics it is possible to conceal racism, corruption and duplicity, but not stupidity.

Strange days indeed....

Oh yes, Badders.

Maybe we should keep a Brexit job loss tally.

Bridgend was leave?

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/bridgend-reels-from-jobs-threat-hanging-over-ford-plant

I feel sorry for people like YER who voted Leave for their own(good) reasons but wo really realising what they were actually voting for.

I voted to leave the eu... I knew what I was voting for and that is patronising.

I'm afaraid people like YER have mssive issues with being associated with xenophobic people, which is fully understandable, BUT, being a Leave voters means you ARE associated with xenophobic voters by default ....

Fine being remain voters means you ARE associated with terrorists by default.

"Fine being remain voters means you ARE associated with terrorists by default."

Has there been a rise in terrorist attacks from remainers since the vote? I must have missed it.

I am sure there are plenty of terrorists, traffickers etc who appreciate the slack borders. They probably voted remain.

Red said you are judged by the company you keep. I was just letting you know how ridiculous it looks.

If people don't want to be tarred as xenophobes then a good way to go about it isn't jumping in with a band of racists to vote for a cause and then denigrating the system when they try to put in the only non racist measure that's come out of the sorry mess behind.

Trying to hit back with completely bullshit things probably based on baseless immigration issues about supporting terrorism just adds support to the xenophobic case.

"Maybe we should keep a Brexit job loss tally"

I actually think this would be a useful thing to do, but probably needs its own thread.

If I am judged with a load of xenophobes by the same coin you could be judged with a load of terrorists ( I am sure there a re a few terrorists who like the freeish borders) What a nasty post, don't know where to start on how repugnant this is.

I think the most obvious difference is that most thinking moderate Irish people own the issues, debated them and have taken actions to overcome them in the shape of steps towards greater integration etc , hence the forces that brought about the Good Friday agreement (which Brexit may sink) , equally the case with moderate Muslims who are trying to discuss the issues and identify what they can do.

I do not think all leavers are racists but I do think we are seeing with a few notable exceptions a rather tribal / herding mentality developing which blindly follows the political elites move to the right and attempts (often aggressively as we saw on the other thread and have seen in the press) to silence anyone who challenges /questions it, even if they are part of our democratic system of checks and balances that are there to protect us from extremism.

That is what scares me most about these times, never before has British politics been so divisive and unpleasant and values that I thought were a given and established in our society are suddenly under threat

"I am sure there are plenty of terrorists, traffickers etc who appreciate the slack borders. They probably voted remain."

Leaving the EU means threatening the cross-border cooperation we rely on to fight terrorism and trafficking. This is not good news for either.

I missed the pro traffickers campaign posters and their spokesmen on tv. Maybe it was that giant straw man.

If people don't want to be tarred as xenophobes then a good way to go about it isn't jumping in with a band of racists to vote for a cause and then denigrating the system when they try to put in the only non racist measure that's come out of the sorry mess behind.

If people don't want to be tarred as terrorists then a good way to go about it isn't jumping in with a band of terrorists to vote for a cause and then denigrating the system when they try to put in the only security measure that's come out of the sorry mess behind.

YERs What rubbish. ISIS celebrated the Leave victory, so do what remains of the extremist IRA rump.

What exactly are we going to do at our borders after we leave that we don't already do to prevent terrorists entering the country?

And a racist post tally.

Script for today includes: NI elections are about terrorism because NI voted remain.

What happens when you think the best policy for expats could be achieved through negotiation instead od a load of unelected spoiled children sitting round the table