Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

YER
Actually it's 5 years for the PRC and then another year to be able to apply for citizenship.

If you have been working here for 20 years absolutely nobody would try to deny you that.
Actually there are plenty of cases where this is the case.
Like the french guy who worked all his life in Scotland and went away for work for 2 small years. He was refused the PRC because he had been away just IVF the two years limit and that was less than 5 years ago.
NOte when he did that, there was no reason at all to think this would be an issue.
You can also have people who have worked the stop, e.g. For have a bay, then worked again and stopped again and then worked again (that's the case for one of my friend) so they have never accrued the 5 continous years working.
They might have stopped work to care for an elderly parent (or British PIL!), a child (who will be British) etc etc
They might have such a complex work history (like I have) that actually getting all the information is near impossible.

So the 'nobody will try to deny that to you' makes me laugh. It's nowhere the experience of eu citizens actually trying to get said PRC (obligatory of you want to get the citizenship. It's only the very first step in the process)

Lico...

Yes in my personal opinion it should be made a lot less complicated and for people who have worked here for 5 years it should be free. I am not a politician though so I can't fix that.

mathanxiety dont' go there! I have been called a racist by an old family friend as I'm being racist against non-Europeans, apparently, by supporting the FoM by EU citizens! This person is a right-wing Tory who has always made fun of non-Europeans in the most racist fashion, a la Boris at best...

Sessions situation is pretty fruity, red, and Obama's return to politics.

"Tories wary about plugging Trump gap in family planning funding
Theresa May’s government is in a tricky position at the She Decides conference which is being seen as a symbol of solidarity against Donald Trump"

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/02/donald-trump-family-planning-she-decides-conference

Difficult for May to decide whether to support family planning now.

The detail of the policy and the application is the problem, not the policy itself.
I am happy for them to curb the future freedom of movement, but I do expect them to preserve the rights of people.like my friend who are already here.

Government are very confused in my opinion of what people were asking for.

Eg

We say be stricter on terrorism
They say stop all the brown people coming
We say
Than say look we achieved what you wanted
We say

I do know the tories are a nightmare but there isn't much option at the moment.

I wonder if I need to find an expert in dual nationality pension affairs now. Or will I not be able to retire anyway?

I always dreaded this referendum, but never anticipated the level of destruction, division, hatred, uncertainty and misery it would unleash. "Project Fear" didn't even get close. This is the most significant political moment I have lived through, and not in a good way.

It is a long shift tonight.

Yer:
To reside in any EU country, you must exercise treaty rights.

Legally you do not have to have a piece of paper to prove it (Permanent Residence Card).

This means that EU citizens are legally residing and working. However , if an EU national wants to apply for citizenship, he/she must now apply for this piece of paper (which under EU law is not required!).

Of course , the form and requirements for the PR residency card keep changing for instance the form is now 85 pages together with this Comprehensive Health Insurance.

It is those EU nationals who have lived in the UK for decades who will find it difficult to assemble all the evidence. Have you kept bank statements and utility bills from the 1980's? Note that a breakdown from decades of NI contributions does not count towards a PR card..

I hope we leave the echr. I think we need to have our own legislation, which enshrines rights

Here's a deal: I'll support the former after we have the latter in place ?

Or is there a glimmer of hope that twixt the two someone can slide in the mantra: "criminals don't deserve human rights" ?

Yer is not listening, for one reason or another.

Indeed not, but to everyone who is patiently engaging anyway. Perhaps some lurkers might be more open to listening.

Re: Session. How the hell do Trumpsters still not get it that the Russian ambassador is under constant surveillance?! The intelligence agencies know exactly what was said. Can Session and Flynn really be that dumb?

Sorry if this was posted before:

Barack Obama administration ‘rushed to preserve Russian election hacking evidence’ in last days of presidency
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/barack-obama-russia-election-hacking-evidence-us-presidential-race-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-a7607046.html%3famp

You are right jaws...
It is horrific. I do hope things settle down when negotiations are underway, because it is very unpleasant indeed.

Indeed not, but flowers to everyone who is patiently engaging anyway
agree elements

Lurking husband I agree we need it in place before leaving echr

ElenaGreco123 dumb or arrogant? Kushner is in massive hoc to the Russians.

Kudos to the US press, and ordinary voters who are hammering away at the Russian connections.

We have a very modest one here with May's adviser's election expenses problem.

order-order.com/tag/election-expenses/
The Tories have consistently denied that Downing Street chief of staff Nick Timothy worked directly on the expenses scandal-hit South Thanet campaign. CCHQ’s line has been that Timothy only “provided assistance for the Conservative Party’s national team“. Tim Ross’ book ‘Why the Tories won‘ – the authoritative inside account of the 2015 general election – tells a very different story.

woman You are right. If you are Farage, Le Pen, Trump or one of their friends and family, you are above the law. I forgot that. My apologies.

I have just seen this article about Sarah Brown:

Sarah Brown: it is uplifting that my daughter’s death can help others
www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/02/sarah-brown-says-it-is-uplifting-that-daughters-death-can-help-others?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Yer:
I have no problem with new legislation being voted and applied for new comers but I find it dishonest to create new rules and apply them retrospectively. In short , moving the goalposts in order to reject as many applications as possible.

Like many , I am concerned that the UK government will steal my pension and have written to my local MP, Mark Field, who will pass my concerns to the immigration minister! Still awaiting an answer.😄

I have also asked whether the British Expats in the rest of the EU have to fill an 85 page form, and whether they have been threatened with deportation.

Those who are asking why EU expats have not applied for UK citizenship ..

Have you asked the 310,000 UK expats in Spain why they have not applied for Spanish citizenship ?

Are you shocked that the 310,00 UK expats in RoI haven't applied for Irish citizenship ?
Or the 190,000 UK expats in France for French citizenship

Are you shocked that UK + Spanish + Greek + Polish scientists have been working up to 40 years in our R&D centre, but have not apllied for German citizenship ?

Or is it just British citizenship that should be considered so important ?

ElenaGreco123 thank you so much for that one.

Or is it just British citizenship that should be considered so important ?
Not even convinced about keeping my human race union card at the moment BigChoc! Got a spare stash of milk chocolate?

The Uk can always add extra laws for Human Rights

but which of the rights in the European Human Rights Convention do you want everyone in the UK to give up ?
Maybe the right not to be interned or tortured by the govt ?
Or the right not to face the death penalty or birching ?
Or the right not to suffer discrimination due to sex, colour or religion ?

Or is it just British citizenship that should be considered so important?
Excellent question BCF