Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

Yes, but complaining about not being able to vote if you don't want to be a citizen is another matter

I don't think any EU citizens were.

I personally think it unreasonable that someone who has spent most of their adult life elsewhere, and has little commitment to this country, but just happens to be here in time to register for the vote and have the right passport, can have a vote, and then clears off again, when people who have made a choice to live and work here, and make a contribution to this country, have no say.

The Lords are not normally enfranchised, nor are the citizens of Gibraltar, but an exception was made for the Referendum. Why not do so for EU citizens who were established here?

Dual nationality is a wonderful thing. It is available for citizens of most places.

YER
As far as I can see NO EU citizens have complained to not being able to vote whilst saying they made the choice not to become British.
On the contrary, they've said they made the choice of not being British DESPITE the fact it meant they can't vote.
(Note, the same has being said by British citizens living in the EU too...)

It very much sounds as if you are reading what you want to read rather than what people are actually writing.

Is it?
My dcs have dual citizenship.
They feel neither British nor from my home country.
They define themselves in opposition to their environment.
They are french here but English in France.
Because what is always reflected back to them is that they are different and somehow never fitting in...

The Lords are not normally enfranchised, nor are the citizens of Gibraltar, but an exception was made for the Referendum. Why not do so for EU citizens who were established here?

I think only british citizens should have been allowed the vote.

I have two children with dual nationality so I suppose they are lucky as they are also bilingual, but it's heartbreaking to witness how their relationship with the country of their birth has changed. Before they always described themselves as British first, a closely followed by my nationality and European, always joking, "sorry Mum, we are a little bit more British", an affectionate family joke. They now describe themselves as Londoners and Europeans. They are so disappointed and incredulous at how the referendum result has really had a very direct effect on their lives. Living in London, they have many friends in the same situation and they talk about this a great deal. It has raised very interesting questions for them about identity, the media, nationalism, and in a way been a fantastic lesson that they will always remember.

I can sympathise there red.

My kids are english in scotland and scottish in england.

I think only british citizens should have been allowed the vote.

That I fully agree with!

But YER!should they be feeling British rather than English or Scottish ??

Dual nationality is a wonderful thing. It is available for citizens of most places.

yer you are again missing the point! Until June we didn't need to have dual nationality for movement throughout the EU because we were EU citizens which meant in my case I could still be British and an EU citizen, the latter of which gave me the chance to live in another country. And that was a wonderful thing to use your words! I didn't take dual citizenship previously because I already had dual citizenship as an EU citizen which covered that!

YY to the fact it wasn't needed!

I'm taking a bit of a break. EU nationals are allowed to vote in Council Elections if they are resident here. Because that has an impact on their lives. As a full blooded 100% brit, I don't have have a problem with EU nationals who are based here long term voting on their future even if they are not citizens. Why should I? Seriously, if they are voting its a statement of intent to be involved in their community within which they live. If you are 'just passing through' why would you register to vote and take the time to vote?

I still think of myself as a European and I will be devastated on the day when we actually leave. I will be trying to find excuses to fly the EU flag in the next couple of yeas. (I also am an owner of a St George's Flag just so you know)

Anyway, something looks like it just happened in the US, which may have implications for over here. Jeff Sessions has announced he will steps aside from Russia probe into the Trump Administration. Don't underestimate the significance. One of the reasons Sessions was put in, was to protect Trump. Without him there, Trump is far more exposed.

I'm likely to be around a bit less for the next couple of weeks. DH has some long over due time off work - I've spent the last week getting stuff around the house done before he's off and trashes my peace and quiet!

I don't believe in nation states. Relatively new invention( 4-500years) if that, and completely irrelevant in today's world.

Culture, identity and commerce is global and this obsession with nationality is the dying gasps of an obsolete (caucasian and male) generation.

Until June we didn't need to have dual nationality for movement throughout the EU because we were EU citizens which meant in my case I could still be British and an EU citizen yes, and many of us built our lives, worked, bought houses and raised a family on that basis. Now I don't even know where the pension plan I pay into through work will travel with me if/when I move back to Europe -- there is a big possibility that it won't! Many of us have paid tax here for the whole of our working lives, on the understanding that capital, like people, have free movement across Europe!

Keep an eye on the thread, Red. The way we are going, we will need a new one before your time off comes to an end. 'We' (i.e. me and Semi), decided that only you could initiate a new thread in the series. We were beginning to suffer withdrawal symptoms the other day when the previous thread got to 1000 with no sign of a new one.

Pensions are so so worrying.

Same here and I have this worry that I will be told to leave and will loose any pension I have accumulated here on the basis that I'm not Britain nor do I live in Britain.
A whole lifetime of it.

EU nationals are allowed to vote in Council Elections if they are resident here and also European Parliament elections -- I had to explain what EU Parliament elections were to a relative of my husband who was telling me how undemocratic the EU is, as they've never voted...

All I can say is if you have been here for more than 5 years please apply for dual citizenship. It is important for your own future here. No matter what people (mainly remain) have been saying most people do want people to be able to continue with their lives here. That may well mean applying for dual citizenship. If you have been working here for 20 years absolutely nobody would try to deny you that.

Sadly YER some countries don't allow dual citizenships

Its not easy to apply for permanent residence here let alone citizenship.

My DM worked here all her adult life. She never managed to get through citizenship as the goalposts kept moving. So yes, you can be here legally for 20 years and still have citizenship denied for spurious reasons.

I have applied for RP, if they grant me that I can apply for a British passport after six months. So all going well that won't be for another year as RP applications take up to six months. Then the passport will cost me around £2000. But my husband is British so he's about to lose his EU nationality, with all the uncertainty about our future that entails if we want to retire in my country, which was our plan.
Also, I know many people who don't qualify for RP under current rules, as they are SAH parents, elderly, or have spent a period outside UK as part of their work. This is a nightmare for those families.

Haha yes I noticed. You are giving me a good excuse to use to DH though. I HAVE to go on MN lots....

By-Election Time.

Today is the NI Assembly elections but results are not due until tomorrow evening or Saturday, so I'm afraid after the 'excitement' of last week its back to local council elections.

Mudeford and Friars Cliff, Christchurch Dorset
CON
Con, UKIP, Lab, Green and Ind.
Probably a CON hold (in the absence of Lib Dems)

Kersal, Salford
LAB
Lab, Con, UKIP, Green, Lib Dems and Ind.
Should stay Lab, but this is a heavy jewish area and the Con candidate is a well known local rabbi.

Hutton, Redcar and Cleveland
CON
Con, Lab, Lib Dem and UKIP

Newcomen, Redcar and Cleveland
LIB DEM
Lib Dems, Lab, UKIP, CON and Independent

I don't even want to hazard a guess on these two, unlike most at the moment. I think the North East is particularly open in local by right now. People are unhappy and are doing odd things and not turning out.

Tonight's QT:
Liz Truss CON
Dawn Butler LAB
Menzies Campbell LD
Jamie McColl Bombay Bicycle Club
Peter Hitchens Mail on Sunday

Yer:
Theresa May has put a stop to this.
EU citizens must have the Permanent Residency Card before being allowed to apply for Citizenship. She has made some laws retrospective.
I have the same issues as many posters, after 4O years of N.I , Vat , Income tax contributions in ´the UK.

It does not help that people even in this country are unable to listen to the views of people who voted leave, but are happy to deride them all as racists, much like misty did earlier.

Do you think a lot of racists voted Remain, Yer?

My country of origin doesn't show dual citizenship. I would be bothered about giving up my original nationality tbh but I'd need a passport from some place. But this is evading the issue anyway. You make it sounds too easy and as if it can all work or the way you think YER. It ain't like that.