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[Niamer]

If you voted for "Brexit at any cost" this will not be of any interest to you. If you voted Leave because you wanted the best for your family and UK, or you voted Remain, please consider supporting Gina Miller's campaign. She is pushing for a meaningful Parliamentary vote at the end of Brexit negotiations, ie with an option to remain in the EU if the deal we get isn't as good as what we have already. Most of my friends who voted Leave have said "Yeah, I wouldn't mind", as however we voted, most of us want the best for our children.
Please sign up here:www.campaign2018.org

Does Miller think all votes are "meaningless" unless she gets her preferred options on the ballot paper, and preferred result? No wonder she likes the EU.

If negotiations break down then there is no reason why a v soft Brexit isn't an option tbh.

I'm a leaver who would prefer that not to be the case, but I'm also a realist and can see that this may be the outcome.

The EU would prefer UK to pursue v soft than complete detachment, the majority of MPs across all parties would prefer that too.

The 'deal or no deal' rhetoric is just posturing & dick swinging at the moment (on both sides).
If UK went into negotiations saying 'give us a decent deal or we'll just stay' - why, realistically, would the EU give any ground on anything at all?

Signing

If negotiations break down then there is no reason why a v soft Brexit isn't an option tbh

I too would sign up for that, but I see no legal or practical mechanism which would enable it to happen (bar parallel negotiating strands, which isn't going to happen).

Gina Miller has been very clear that Article 50 will be triggered. She is not trying to block Brexit, just trying to assert that it is subject to parliamentary sovereignty and to the same degree of rigour in the debating, decision making and scrutiny as any other major government decision.

I am outer-M25 (whatever that is) too.

I was prevaricating but the usual crop of mostly one liner attempts to close down debate have convinced me to sign. This is not a decision that should be subject to mob rule based on sentiment, it should be taken by our properly informed representatives.

A soft brexit could happen if TM decides that we need to keep people here to continue to work in the NHS and care homes, where we heavily rely on EU immigration.

How could it happen? It will require negotiation.

People keep parroting this. I would like to know the basis on which they think this is feasible.

There would be Mother, of course there would.

I'd be extremely pissed off if we didn't detach from the EU as far as we possibly can (for me it's the EU as an institution & its current direction of travel that I'm most opposed to).

However, if it became apparent that this couldn't happen to that extent then the onus is on the politicians to 'sell' soft Brexit to the country.

I would imagine that most people are clustered around the centre as with all bell curves, so they're easier to sell to than the more extremes (like me, other hard Leavers and the hard Remainers).

"f negotiations break down then there is no reason why a v soft Brexit isn't an option tbh."

That would be fine, but what is the mechanism for this? The idea that it is an option is a long way from it being the default.

I already signed.

Gina Miller has been very clear that Article 50 will be triggered

As if it's down to her?

A v soft brexit (single market, FOM, ECJ) is entirely possible, it is in the EUs interest to let this happen. Asking for a vote on the final deal I think is forcing our negotiators to show that any deal is better than this

Tiggytape I see your point but sometimes the law is an ass and so you have to follow it's logic to achieve the justice you seek. We had to sue Mercedes for a car that didn't start every other time, or rather we sued the leasing company who sued the garage who sued Mercedes. Their lawyers argued that as my husband was the leaseholder, then any stress and consequential loss that arose from the cars failure to transport the rest of the family was not a concern to any of the parties being sued. Somehow I do not think that the Mercedes Brand Managers would have wanted that to become established in the public perception........... or were pleased when I got the case into the Daily Telegraph don't buy a Mercedes not that we will be able to if WTO rules kick in

I'll sign anything that might mean that we don't crash out headlong and be at the mercy of WTO rules.

Anyone waxing lyrical about sovereignty before the vote, and complaining about the idea of Parliamentary power now, is being deliberately obtuse or doesn't understand how our democracy works.

The Tories threatening the continued existence of the Lords is quite funny considering their talk in the past about filling the upper house with more Tory lords.

Surfer read the sentence, or does it evoke too many shades of grey? Clear as in understands, with pragmatic realism something that does not come easily to many leavers

I can't get over this this insistence that because we've had one "democratic" vote made, that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES must there ever be another chance for a democratic vote on the issue.

It just shows that people banging on about "democracy" really have no greater understanding of it than they do of "sovereignty".