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Brexit

Westministenders: Tell Boris it should be more Stokenders and Copenders

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2017 16:17

FINALLY this is the thread of the Copeland and Stoke By-Elections.
In the next few days we will be subjected to a whole pile of analysis from the media most of which will completely miss the point, and will waffle on about Brexit as if it’s the only issue ever and this is what matters to everyone.

Its bollocks.

This is the ‘Westminster Bubble’ that doesn’t report what is on the ground. It includes the media and the politicians who ran into town for the election, never to set foot there ever again. In one case pulling faces at the local children. In another desperately trying to prove how local he is.
Is it any wonder some think that all politicians are all the same?

You can learn far more about what really matters by reading the Stoke Sentinel and The Whitehaven News than reading The Sun or The Mail, those great champions of Leave. (Fancy that local papers being more relevant to a community than a national ones).

The by-election in Stoke has been a particular display of pond life style campaigning. We’ve had Hillsborough, ‘dodgy addresses’, arrest of a candidate, text messages saying you’ll go to hell for voting ‘wrong’, letters that say that MPs voted differently to the way they did, an activist being hunted by the police for trying to enter someone’s house and then pissing on her property, crying candidates, faked photos on twitter, dodgy sexist tweets from candidates dragged up, photographs with known far right activists, egg throwing and vandalism.

The word that keep coming out? Not ‘Brexit’. But ‘Change’.

What have the main parties in either election really added in terms of positive change?

Tomorrow’s weather will not help matters. The chances are that it will keep turnout down, making those postal votes more important. It will drive out the angry to vote whilst the apathetic and hopelessly disillusioned will stay home. The result will not be decided by the 60%+ of the electorate who voted to leave the EU. It will be decided by a fraction of that.

Someone has to lose. There will be political blood shed. Friday will see the political blame and finger pointing I doubt anyone will get it.
The real story is about how few people will vote and how few people think their vote counts for anything.

Immigrants and ‘benefit scroungers’ are not to blame for this. Nor is it even the ‘cultural elite’. Politicians have a duty to the whole country, to do the best for them all. Not to merely do the ‘will of the people’. Popularism does not help people. It merely starts a runaway train of the tyranny of the majority. You don’t give children sweets because they demand them. You educate children, and nurture them. If they are unaware of real issues, you make sure they learn and you explain why you are making unpopular decisions honestly, rather than feeding them a crock of shit. Because that’s your job as a PM, as MP, as a MEP, as an elected mayor, as a county councillor, as a borough councillor, as a parish councillor. To step up.

We need politicians with the back bone to do the right thing for all, rather than just worrying about their electoral strategy and how to con people to vote for you this time. We need politicians to actually take the responsibility of office rather than see it as a career opportunity.

The issues that matter most to people ultimately are not about the EU. They are not about immigration. It’s too easy to blame on immigration rather than tackle the infrastructure problems of the country and admit where you have gone wrong in the past. It’s easier to drive an hysterical fear of terrorism and cultural values being in danger from an enemy far away rather than look at who is really responsible.

If people don’t think that others are unaware of the problem, and don’t care about them and how they are being thrown under the bus, they are wrong. Plenty of people on both sides of the EU referendum debate get it.

Plenty on both sides don’t and are indulging the fantasy land excuses for domestic political failure.

The question is how do you get that message out, in a way that makes a difference and does change things? How do you break the stereotypes of the stupid and the patronising? How do you get people like the Nathan from Stoke to be heard and to believe in politics. Not believe in Brexit. Believe that politics can help them.

OP posts:
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prettybird · 25/02/2017 22:02

Is that a cake or am a wrang? Wink the Scots will understand Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 25/02/2017 22:20

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Motheroffourdragons · 25/02/2017 22:24

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woman12345 · 25/02/2017 22:47

A wee boy goes into a cake shop and points in the window and says "Is that a cake or a meringue?"
"|No, you're right" says the baker "- it's a cake."

Oh, ,ah ken the noo, hen.Prettybird

Scots dialect was banned in my junior school, in olden days Glasgow, even though the teachers were all nationalists, it was a particularly snobby nationalism too then. Funny how times change, making the SNP generically popular was the clever tactic, worked well.

Patty I'm worried that silicone roundabout, just getting going in London could be hit by these. No matter what HOL do, the slide seems to have started, and the GATT difficulties ahead, misti. So many emerging businesses could be hit ( the tech, financial services etc). And they can go anywhere now.

woman12345 · 25/02/2017 22:50

Last one:
A field of cows - how do you know which one's on holiday?

  • Its the one with the wee calf..
LurkingHusband · 26/02/2017 09:51

Proof that there's no such thing as magic (if it were needed)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39090334

Most of Donald Trump's opponents believe they will have to wait four more years to see him leave the White House.

But America's witches are more optimistic.

At the stroke of midnight on Friday, followers of witchcraft across the US performed a mass spell designed to remove the president from office.

(contd)

Can anyone else see big Don hearing this, and picking up the phone and demanding the army get "that magic box" that he saw in a documentary* so he can use Bible magic back at them ?

  • "that film with the guy with a whip and a hat ..."

On a very serious note, James I/VI used the belief of magical attacks to whip up persecutions

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_VI_and_I#Witch_hunts

once again, knowing history seems to light the way forward, rather than behind Sad

howabout · 26/02/2017 09:52

Grin woman

A preview of the forthcoming BBC Scotland channel. I have my Famous Grouse on standby for when AN launches McWeek but if it clashes with Taggart on STV Glasgow there'll be trouble.

www.thenational.scot/politics/15117654.The_Slorance_Sketch__A_sneak_peak_at_the_new_BBC_Scotland_channel/?ref=eb

Endless fun and games today because Scottish Labour have finally worked out that they're meant to be opposing the SNP and are looking like they might be getting their act together.

Peregrina · 26/02/2017 09:55

Heseltine now pitches in against Brexit.

Lord Heseltine writes: "The fightback starts here. My opponents will argue that the people have spoken, the [Brexit] mandate secured and the future cast. My experience stands against this argument".

IMO to get a decent deal which 'works for everyone' and not just a select few in the Tory party, we need dissenting voices.

LurkingHusband · 26/02/2017 09:55

and

Former Ukip leader Nigel Farage has said the UK's "real friends" speak English, in a remark seemingly aimed at the European Union.

Mr Farage addressed an enthusiastic audience at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference, as right-wing Americans fully embraced the nationalism that characterises Trumpism and Brexit.

“Our real friends in the world speak English, have common law, and stand by us in times of crisis,” Mr Farage told the room of Trump supporters, in an apparent slight aimed at Britain's nearest neighbours on the continent.

(contd)

va te faire foutre. Votre mère était un hamster et votre père avait le parfum des baies de sureau ...

woman12345 · 26/02/2017 10:03

Peregrina interesting that Heseltine one, and earlier article on HOL cross party 'coalition'. I understand they can't stop it but HOL seems a poor choice of enemy for TM.

boodlyboo · 26/02/2017 10:03

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39094090 Lord Heseltine is going to rebel in Lord's vote and demand that MPs get a meaningful vote on final brexit deal. Ken Clarke and Heseltine - rebels against the establishment. Strange days.

woman12345 · 26/02/2017 10:07

The old Cambridge Analytica story with a bit of Breitbart too on how
Trump’s team paid the firm more than $6m (£4.8m) to target swing voters, and it has now emerged that Mercer also introduced the firm – in which he has a major stake – to Farage.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
Although Remain on paper had the largest fund, I don't think this appears on the Leave data.

Badders123 · 26/02/2017 10:08

Strange days indeed
So...Arron banks is going to stop funding ukip?
How long til he is stuffing TMs coffers?
Strange days and strange bedfellows....

ElenaGreco123 · 26/02/2017 10:12

woman This really creeped me out in that article:

Until now, however, it was not known that Mercer had explicitly tried to influence the outcome of the referendum. Drawing on Cambridge Analytica’s advice, Leave.eu built up a huge database of supporters creating detailed profiles of their lives through open-source data it harvested via Facebook. The campaign then sent thousands of different versions of advertisements to people depending on what it had learned of their personalities.

woman12345 · 26/02/2017 10:16

Guess who says this about standing firm against racism and injustice?

.^........my party whipped against the Labour Party’s anti-discrimination race relations legislation in the late 1960s. I was then involved commercially in hotels and employment agencies. I knew what the disease of ‘no coloureds’ meant. These were the days of Enoch Powell and ‘Rivers of Blood’. I defied the whip and three weeks later my party changed its mind. Around the same time I voted against the Labour Government’s policy to renege on the undertaking to Kenyan Asians at risk of persecution that there would be a home for them here.
I revolted against the Poll Tax. I make no apology – it contributed massively to the destruction of our party in Scotland and would have done so elsewhere in the UK if we had not got rid of it in 1990^.

ElenaGreco123 · 26/02/2017 10:19

Oh, wow! I had to google it.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 26/02/2017 10:20

lurking

I got hamster...has he been shut in the window?

I have just explained to dh that we had a lot more influence over who came into the country but we decided not to use that influence and took the freedom of movement thing literally . He is looking at me as if i am distrubed...i am right arent i? We could have stopped people within reason for years, its not the EUs fault

woman12345 · 26/02/2017 10:20

Elena the alt right have been at this for years; FB always was a creepy invention.

woman12345 · 26/02/2017 10:24

Heseltine has history of trying to gain funding for an original northern power house,
www.gov.uk/government/news/lord-heseltine-encourages-the-north-west-to-go-for-growth
he's still a tory, but like many of those who came up during the 60s and 70s a very different species to current specimens.

prettybird · 26/02/2017 10:29

Lurkinghusband - Farage obviously doesn't realise that Scots Law has more in common with Dutch/Roman Law than English Law but then we don't count Wink

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2017 10:31

Our real friends in the world speak English

Ich spreche ein bisschen deutsch. Schlecht.
Ich habe Freunde in den Niederlanden.

Thats about my limit so with the help of google translate.

Und von überall auf der Welt. Ich lieber meinen Kopf Kochen und aus meinen Augen zu stoßen, als mit dir befreundet sein. Fuck off Farage.

I guess I need to learn more German. Funny how swearing is so universal though. Is this so Farage can understand everywhere he goes?

OP posts:
unicornsIlovethem · 26/02/2017 10:43

Thanks for the Monty python quote lurking!!

Of course most of the countries who speak English do so because of invasion and colonisation - same as most of the south American countries speaking Spanish or Portuguese. That doesn't necessarily make them our friends.

We should also bear in mind that we've been fundamentally involved in European politics since at least 1085 or so. We've just always wanted to rule it all... Henry II has a lot to answer for.

PattyPenguin · 26/02/2017 10:43

While we're on swearing, apparently Russian has elevated bad language to a fine art. A twelve-volume dictionary of profanities is in the works, I kid you not.

Just saying.

prettybird · 26/02/2017 10:52

Ya gavaryoo nyemnogo pa rooskii Grin

Je parle aussi le francais. Malheureusement, je ne parle pas d'autres langues.

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