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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

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Peregrina · 08/02/2017 13:34

I can't bear to watch PMQs these days with Theresa the Appeaser's vacuous non answers, but Corbyn is said to have ambushed her. This is about a leaked memo from the Surrey County Council leader about having a Referendum to increase the Council tax by 15% to cover social care. It is believed that some sweetheart deal has been concocted to prevent this. The fact that Jeremy Hung and Philip Hammond have Surrey constituencies is just a coincidence. The Council leader sent the emails to the wrong person. Oops. (Easily done, I did the same myself the other day).

Peregrina · 08/02/2017 13:35

Should be Hunt, not Hung.

unicornsIlovethem · 08/02/2017 13:40

High treason only stopped being punishable by death in 1998, although the last person executed was Lord Haw Haw in 1947.

HashiAsLarry · 08/02/2017 13:46

I've called Jeremy Hunt a lot worse Grin

Badders123 · 08/02/2017 13:49

I see that left wing rag the economist has criticised brexit now!...
Haterz!!

unicornsIlovethem · 08/02/2017 14:03

Interesting blog post by Tim Harford of "More or Less" on trade:

timharford.com/2017/02/remind_me_what_was_so_great_about_trade/

CeciledeVolanges · 08/02/2017 14:18

My apologies, everyone - that was my mistake. It isn't death, it is transportation.

CeciledeVolanges · 08/02/2017 14:19

And thanks to everyone who came in to correct my mistake - I was rushing in on the way to work. And no, my sector isn't PI, but thanks anyway :) I've just checked the law in force and it is the Treason Felony Act 1848.

CeciledeVolanges · 08/02/2017 14:21

I'm just going to get back on my pedantic little track by saying "phenomena" is a plural form, like "criteria". The singular forms are "phenomenon" and "criterion" respectively.

Motheroffourdragons · 08/02/2017 14:23

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

CeciledeVolanges · 08/02/2017 14:24

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-petition-remain-crime-support-for-eu-treason-felony-act-membership-offence-a7365141.html%3Famp?client=safari

What I was referring to. And bored when you say there is something "a bit out" with my legal knowledge, please feel free to give further examples. What sector do you work in, by the way?

Peregrina · 08/02/2017 14:29

I wonder how he got his hands on the texts.

Because the Council Leader went and sent them to the wrong person. It is considered 'bad form' to use information gained in this way, but given the Tories form post Referendum, I would say - tough. If the Tories want standards, they should try setting a good example.

Motheroffourdragons · 08/02/2017 14:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Kaija · 08/02/2017 14:59

Thanks for that Tim Harford link, unicorns. Brilliant explanation.

RedToothBrush · 08/02/2017 15:06

Trade Union Leaders have a bad reputation on sexism and racism. Far worse than they should have given their nature.

Then there is the SWP and the rape allegations.

Corbyn's association with the latter is somewhat controversial.

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SemiPermanent · 08/02/2017 15:08

I'm just going to get back on my pedantic little track by saying "phenomena" is a plural form, like "criteria". The singular forms are "phenomenon" and "criterion" respectively.

Thank you for pulling me up on that mistake Celcile, too kind.

May I point out that 'here' is the correct spelling, not 'hear' (as with an earlier post of yours).

I'm sure I'm not the only poster who is delighted that you take the time to correct inaccurate spellings/grammar.
Very selfless of you.

boredofbrexit · 08/02/2017 15:10

my mistake cdv, I have now scrolled back to your post of a few nights ago and I note that you said IP, not PI, my mistake. I am not a lawyer but have a few in my employ.

CeciledeVolanges · 08/02/2017 15:24

No problem at all. As you could probably tell by the first sentence of my post, I wasn't being entirely serious and more than a little ironic there.

Honestly, and please know I am not fishing for compliments, but if you are all reading what I write and thinking "oh for god's sake, I wish she would shut up" then I will relurk. It is no problem to me and if I am undoing the work of RTB, peregrina, woman et al I would rather know so I can stop doing so. Thanks.

SapphireStrange · 08/02/2017 15:25

Could everyone stop the snark, please? It's getting really tiring. These threads are generally pretty civilised and it would be a shame if they got dragged down.

CeciledeVolanges · 08/02/2017 15:26

And apologies for my own typo. I type on a phone, usually while walking, but even so that was certainly careless.

CeciledeVolanges · 08/02/2017 15:29

Sorry, Sapphire, for my part in that.

boredofbrexit · 08/02/2017 15:37

with respect sapphire, but is it civilised when its an appreciation society but snark when anyone with a different viewpoint posts?

SapphireStrange · 08/02/2017 15:39

bored, I'm referring to comments by e.g. Cecile and Semi, who I think are on opposing 'sides' in the discussion, so no, it's not about viewpoints and I'm not being partisan.

Cecile, thanks. Thanks

prettybird · 08/02/2017 15:42

For the most part it is civilised because the posts are thoughtful, considered and educated.

I don't agree with almost all most of what howabout says (both her politics and her views on Scottish independence) but I respect her right to have a view even if I disagree and she argues her points well.

CeciledeVolanges · 08/02/2017 15:44

I would agree. Actually I don't want to just apologise to Sapphire, but to everyone, I have been too sarcastic and too pedantic and it isn't the right tone to strike and beneath everyone who puts such thoughtful posts onto this thread. I will draw back, for a bit, I think. Sorry, everyone.