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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

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RedAndYellowStripe · 11/02/2017 10:29

Which means btw, that as the white middle class in the uk is quite a BIG part of the population, she isn't quite as out of touch as you make it.

I can see though how that sort of Reading would make some British people unconfortable.

Peregrina · 11/02/2017 10:31

One thing I would say though, I started to fall out of love before the referendum. All the rethoric against the immigrants and the way the country was going were visible before that. I have to say I couldn't quite put my finger on it at the time. But I have been feeling unwelcome for a while now.

Mixed race, EU passport holding DIL took out British citizenship the year before last, because of exactly the same sort of sentiments. Even then, she said, that if they decide you are unwelcome, having the right paperwork won't stop them.

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 10:34

*semi it might not be your sperience of life in Britain but it certainly is the one of a lot of people on MN.
That's the one I have seen too from my small white town in the north of England (middle class in the middle of very deprived areas).

So maybe in a bubble but just as much in a bubble than all the British white middle class women I can see around me.*

Well that maybe goes a long way to explaining why the ref result is so hard for some people to accept.
(I've used your post RedAndYellow, but am not directing this at you in a personal way)

The majority of people in Britain are not in that bubble; MN is hugely over representative of that demographic, hence mn called the last 2 general elections & the referendum wrongly.

boredofbrexit · 11/02/2017 10:36

But how can anyone tell - without being told - what passport anyone holds?Confused

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 10:36

Even then, she said, that if they decide you are unwelcome, having the right paperwork won't stop them.
Yes peregrina. There's a lot of dual nationals who feel similarly. It doesn't take long until you're the 'wrong type' of dual citizen.

RedAndYellowStripe · 11/02/2017 10:37

But that wasn't the point of that blog though.
No one is comparing how shit it is in other places.
It's about how things have changed, how the British society was projecting an image of itself as being an open ande welcoming society just to be hit in the face with the fact that actually no it isn't.

I would actually argue that it has never been but that the societal pressure before was so strong that no one ever dared saying they weren't keen on immigrants/Asians etc... now that the society has lifted the ban on that, it appears in all its glory.
I appreciate that some people ARE very welcoming. And that my experience from a Leave area will be very different that the one someone has in London for example.
But in general? From all the discourse in the political arena as well as how people react (e.g. Since the referendum, people I've never met before all ask me where I am from within 1min of talking to me and yes this is the soft ones of the spectrum. And this in the North or in London or Bristol etc..) yep it is now allowed to behave like we were when Britain was a great country - the racist 1960 before the UK joined the EU.

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 10:39

as the white middle class in the uk is quite a BIG part of the population, she isn't quite as out of touch as you make it.

Grin Home schooling, sling wearing, cloth nappy using, baby-led weaning workshop running, gentle mindful parenting class running is not reflective of Britain, however much you want it to be!!
RedAndYellowStripe · 11/02/2017 10:39

semi see my post above.
The way whilst middle class women live their life here is what the blogger described. They voted Leave too.
I don't think there is any correlation in the way you are describing.

unicornsIlovethem · 11/02/2017 10:41

People guess about passports, bored.

My DH has been told to leave and go back to his own country several times since last June. He was born in the uk. His parents were born in the uk. They've traced their ancestry back - it gets a bit hazy round the reformation in the 16th century, but both sides of his family come from the uk.

He looks quite Spanish though, and that's enough now.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 10:41

Looks, accents, names have all been triggers for abuse regardless of facts or voting preference in my social circle and my locality post referendum.

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 10:42

Just did sorry, xposted.

It's not just Britain though - Britain at the moment is reflective of many other countries.
The BBC doc I linked to was quite revealing.

Thankfully, Britain is not at any real risk from the hard right as other European countries are.

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2017 10:45

Thankfully, Britain is not at any real risk from the hard right as other European countries are.

Yes. Its already in power.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/01/worried-american-democracy-study-activist-techniques
It may only take 3.5% of the population to topple a dictator –with civil resistance

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SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 10:47

The hard right are really not in power in Britain, Red.
That is hysterical nonsense.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 10:48

Ah the hysterical shut down attempt

Peregrina · 11/02/2017 10:48

The German lady was reflecting her own experience. I didn't see her claim that she spoke for all Germans. I don't see why anyone has a problem with that.

I understand it all too well. We moved around a lot as a child, which meant that I had the 'wrong' accent in a lot of places. It was so nice to move to a town with a lot of 'incomers' (where I still live) and not be asked 'where do you come from?' as soon as I opened my mouth, and not in a friendly way necessarily. Small English towns and villages are extremely insular.

howabout · 11/02/2017 10:51

Small point of order. The margin of victory for Leave was 1.3 million. Over 1 million Scots voted Leave. If those Scots had instead voted Remain then the Leave vote would be 1 million less and the Remain vote 1 million more and Remain would have won by 0.7 million. That is before adjusting for low Scottish turnout caused by voting fatigue and confusion over the impact on the likelihood of Indyref2.

Prof Curtice, of Strathclyde Uni and the BBC's goto man for poll analysis, thinks the Herald poll showing an increase in Indy support may need a very large pinch of salt.

uk.businessinsider.com/scottish-independence-bmg-poll-sampling-error-behind-bmg-poll-putting-support-on-49-2017-2

mrsquagmire · 11/02/2017 10:52

RAYS, asking people where they’re from isn’t necessarily hostile - it could be just making conversation to see if they know that place and if it’s somewhere they’ve visited. Btw I’m as English as they come but originally from the south, and when I moved to a small northern town in the 1970s there was all sorts of suspicion and hostility. The incomers before me had black crosses painted on their front door. It’s not just anti-foreigners. I'm repeating what other people have said a bit, I think.

boredofbrexit · 11/02/2017 10:52

I have lived in England for 30 years and people still comment about my accent, so its not new. Neither is the class divide, which an accent marks too.
But these things are not specific to the UK, I've lived and worked in Europe and it was exactly the same.

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 10:57

I've lived all over Britain & also overseas - I have a complete mishmash of an accent and always get asked where my accent is from - it's conversational small talk.

SemiPermanent · 11/02/2017 10:58

Ah the hysterical shut down attempt

Well, to say that the far right are already in power in Britain is hardly a rational assertion, is it?

Peregrina · 11/02/2017 10:58

Sometimes it's conversational small talk, and sometimes it's hostility, and you can usually tell the difference.

Tryingtosaveup · 11/02/2017 11:01

That blog was very self indulgent. There is no such thing as an EU citizen. The EU is not a country and cannot have citizens.
The blogger is German.
She should have taken out UK citizenship.
This thread is full of immigrants from other EU countries ( or their families) moaning because they do not like the way the British citizens voted. It beggars belief.

boredofbrexit · 11/02/2017 11:01

Agree Peregrina.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 11:02

The term "far-right" has been used to describe right-wing populist ideologies which is known for its opposition to immigration and its espousal of nationalism

Completely rational to say the far right are already in power.

HashiAsLarry · 11/02/2017 11:04

Definitely peregrina

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