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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

OP posts:
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boredofbrexit · 10/02/2017 19:50

When things go wrong politically and economically a very hard light is shone on the people responsible.

So that would be the EU then?Grin

CeciledeVolanges · 10/02/2017 19:51

Two steps:

  1. The decision is made (by Parliament)
  2. The notification is made (with Parliament's permission).
HashiAsLarry · 10/02/2017 19:51

Welcome to Friday night peeps. Enjoy your own Wine and Gin and don't wrestle with the pigs.

CeciledeVolanges · 10/02/2017 19:51

Agreed Tatiana

SwedishEdith · 10/02/2017 19:54

This is a simple, clear, explanation from Simon Wren-Lewis, a Professor of Economic Policy at the Blavatnik School of Government, Oxford University, and a fellow of Merton College.

A little English coup

TatianaLarina · 10/02/2017 19:54

I'm sorry WT I don't have the patience or the time.

I lurk on this thread to read interesting discussion and useful links.

WrongTrouser · 10/02/2017 19:55

How rude.

There's an interview with TM in this week's New Statesman. Can't link as pay wall. I'm warming to her (and I say this as someone who has never voted Tory in my life). You should read it.

TatianaLarina · 10/02/2017 19:56

Thanks Cecile. I'm going to read that now.

WrongTrouser · 10/02/2017 19:58

Okay Tatiana I'll take that as "It was hyperbole rather than what I actually think".

WrongTrouser · 10/02/2017 19:58

My how rude was to the pigs comment.

Kaija · 10/02/2017 20:01

Have a read of the article, Wrong. It explains it very well.

Kaija · 10/02/2017 20:02

Pigs?

Peregrina · 10/02/2017 20:03

had a mini coup?
have a small far-right cabal in power?

Theresa May was going to try to push the legislation through without the consent of Parliament until a legal case stopped her.

I can see nowhere in the Conservative Manifesto which talks about a Hard Brexit, or WTO terms, but extreme right wingers in the party are on record as stating those are their wishes.

As for hatred of Theresa May. Hatred is not a good emotion, my opinion is being formed by her actions, not the empty words she speaks.

boredofbrexit · 10/02/2017 20:03

Swedish The comments are more interesting than the tenuous links by the author.

Kaija · 10/02/2017 20:04

This can't be stated enough, given the revisionism around Leave's various statements on the single market before the vote;

"If you think coup is too strong a word, think about what has happened. An advisory referendum decided by a very narrow majority to leave the EU. That is all this slim majority of the electorate decided. They did not vote to leave the single market (SM), partly because most leaders of the Leave campaign told us (correctly) that leaving the EU was quite compatible with staying in the SM. They did not vote to end freedom of movement. Leaving the EU is not one policy, but a whole range of possible policies with quite different effects, and the electorate have said nothing about their preferences among these possibilities. In short, the referendum was about the EU and not the SM, and whatever they say now we know that you can be in the SM without being part of the EU."

SemiPermanent · 10/02/2017 20:09

Agree with Bored, the article was just full of the same guff we've been hearing since the ref about scared Leavers - "what have we done?!" Etc.

The comments underneath are interesting though.

Badders123 · 10/02/2017 20:13

Semi...there are plenty of scared leavers

WrongTrouser · 10/02/2017 20:18

Kaija Thanks for the pointer to the article. I have read it. I think he is wrong. Some excellent comments underneath though.

Would you remainers like to see a General Election called, which I suppose is the logical conclusion if you believe the government is acting outwith its mandate?

The pigs comment was Hashi reminding posters not to wrestle with the pigs, which I thought was a bit unneccessary as I thought we were having a reasonable, if a bit tetchy, discussion.

Corcory · 10/02/2017 20:19

Are there Badders? I don't know any. I also don't know who wanted anything other than hard Brexit. Haven't seen any leavers on MN want soft Brexit so where are these people?
I do know plenty of remainers who where too frightened to vote anything else. Better the 'devil you know' was said to me on quite a number of occasions.

Peregrina · 10/02/2017 20:20

Would you remainers like to see a General Election called, which I suppose is the logical conclusion if you believe the government is acting outwith its mandate?

Yes, or else Theresa May sticks to the 2015 mandate.

Figmentofmyimagination · 10/02/2017 20:20

Very frightening 'any questions' just now.

HashiAsLarry · 10/02/2017 20:21

The obvious derail attempts started early tonight. Was a reminder to stay on track early too. Unless the idea is to derail in which case, I'll stand by my reminder to all.

And yes, if TM is not to be held by the 2015 Tory Manifesto then yes TM needs to secure her own by means of GE.

Peregrina · 10/02/2017 20:25

OK for those of you Leavers who are happy with Theresa May's behaviour.

Suppose when Blair got in he completely ripped up the mandate he was elected on, and assumed that what he wanted was what the country wanted. Would that have been acceptable to you?

SemiPermanent · 10/02/2017 20:27

The obvious derail attempts started early tonight.

Your 'derail' is my 'not agreeing with everything posted on this thread'.

Potato/tomato etc.

It's a shitty way to refer to Leave voters, regardless.

WrongTrouser · 10/02/2017 20:27

Hashi This is a thread on MN, which is a public forum where anyone is entitled to post (within the guidelines). I am not trying to derail - I am trying to have a discussion so that I can understand the thinking of people I disagree with, and can put my point of view across to.

It's really interesting that you see any debate or challenge as a "derail" Hmm