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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

OP posts:
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boredofbrexit · 10/02/2017 19:15

Stopped short of civil war thoughHmm

Badders123 · 10/02/2017 19:20

I also agree
They won't block it
But it desperately needs redrafting and make the MPs pushing Head with this clusterfuck put some actual detail in it

TatianaLarina · 10/02/2017 19:23

Stopped short of civil war though

Too early to say, we've hardly started, and the disastrous economic consequences have not yet taken hold.

I'm not expecting people to take up arms, but I'd be surprised if we get through the next 10 years of economic downturn and political disillusion without civil unrest.

Quite apart from what transpires in N.I

TatianaLarina · 10/02/2017 19:24

Apart from his last half sentence about blocking A50 I personally don't see a lot to disagree with. E.g. May assumes that she has carte blanche to take the UK out of the Single Market; the Conservative manifesto said that they were committed to it. The Referendum didn't ask that question. May hasn't been tested in a General Election, so she hasn't yet published any manifesto

Absolutely.

Badders123 · 10/02/2017 19:27

I repeat...
An ADVISORY referendum
Being treated as legally binding
By an UNELECTED leader
Cosmic 😕

Peregrina · 10/02/2017 19:27

How much more explicit or better drafted could the bill possibly be?!

I have no idea what individual Lords are thinking, but at a guess, I would suspect that some think such a short bill on what is a crucial issue, needs to be more comprehensive.

CeciledeVolanges · 10/02/2017 19:28

Semi it is horrifically badly drafted. Doesn't even accord with the wording of Article 50. I dare say that the EU is actually already aware of the UK's intention to leave. It is a decision they are supposed to be notifying.

boredofbrexit · 10/02/2017 19:28

Ten years is a long time in politics.

Who knows...the EU, the Middle East, USA, Germany joining the Arms Race...who knows.

TatianaLarina · 10/02/2017 19:30

How much more explicit or better drafted could the bill possibly be?!

I can only assume this is a joke.

boredofbrexit · 10/02/2017 19:30

CdV, there is no required template.
It is simply the formalisation of intent as part of due process.

Badders123 · 10/02/2017 19:32

How much more explicit or better drafted could the bill possibly be?

Hahahahahahahahaha

Now....there's your alan partridge moment 😂

TatianaLarina · 10/02/2017 19:33

Ten years is a very long time to be stuck in a economic limbo half out of the EU, half waiting for world trade deals to be finalised.

lalalonglegs · 10/02/2017 19:36

Meanwhile, in Stoke... Paul Nuttall is denying that he has ever claimed to be a Hillsborough survivor www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-denies-lying-about-being-at-hillsborough-disaster despite being on record claiming repeatedly that he was a Hillsborough survivor]]Hmm. It takes a special kind or liar to deny that he has said something when he was filmed saying it; it takes a sick kind of weirdo liar to want to gain political kudos from a national tragedy.

Peregrina · 10/02/2017 19:37

Ten years is certainly a long time. I for one, didn't foresee in 1981 that Communism in E Europe would have collapsed ten years later.

My annoyance with the MPs, on both side of the House is that there was a constant procession of them saying that they didn't think it was good for the country, but they went and voted for it anyway. Who on earth votes deliberately for a course of action in which they see no benefit?

lalalonglegs · 10/02/2017 19:37

despite being on record claiming repeatedly that he was a Hillsborough supporter. Sorry about link above.

Badders123 · 10/02/2017 19:38

Well after trumps phone call Xi and Abe I think we can all agree where US trade deals are headed....
No wonder trump and Putin are so delighted by brexit...

SemiPermanent · 10/02/2017 19:40

it's about trying to mitigate the fact that this country has experienced a mini coup

They [lords] *don't have the power to save the country, but they can go down fighting.

In retrospect this whole sorry episode will be regarded as a folie en masse, I think the constitutional process will be changed to prevent something similar happening again. (As after the civil war).*

Oh dear god.
Seriously?!

CeciledeVolanges · 10/02/2017 19:40

Bored, read Article 50. It refers clearly to notifying a decision. Not making a declaration of intent.

HashiAsLarry · 10/02/2017 19:43

The notification of the decision has already happened as well, best hope that's not all we needed to do or we've wasted at least 6 months.

SemiPermanent · 10/02/2017 19:44

But it desperately needs redrafting and make the MPs pushing Head with this clusterfuck put some actual detail in it

What more detail is needed?
It's a bill to trigger A50 & start the Brexit process.
That's it!

As per Gina Miller et al's express wishes - A50 must be triggered only after both houses approve it.

It has nothing to do with anything else - just triggering A50.

Peregrina · 10/02/2017 19:45

Some of us do feel that the country has seen a mini coup. Theresa May seems to be completely in thrall to the extreme right wing of the party, without any sort of mandate. IMO if she was still carrying on with the 2015 Manifesto mandate, I would think that was fair enough - the country put the Tories in (Well, England - not Scotland of course.)

TatianaLarina · 10/02/2017 19:45

If you've studied any history at all, you will know how this will turn out.

History will unkind to everyone caught on the wrong side of this debacle.

Look how things turned for Blair vis à vis Iraq, and for Pétain for example.

When things go wrong politically and economically a very hard light is shone on the people responsible.

WrongTrouser · 10/02/2017 19:46

The fact that this country has experienced a mini coup. A small, far right cabal has gained power off the back of an advisory plebiscite and is choosing to hijack the outcome onto a route for which they have no mandate, nor the support of half the country

Tatiana At the risk of being called obtuse again, could you spell out for me in what ways exactly we have:

had a mini coup?
have a small far-right cabal in power?

I am really not being obtuse, or goady. I would just like to understand the thinking behind these kind of statements.

SemiPermanent · 10/02/2017 19:47

Perhaps I am viewing things differently because I don't share the visceral hatred of Theresa May that many on this thread seem to.

TatianaLarina · 10/02/2017 19:48

Anyway, back to Stoke, I'm horrified by Nuttall's lies - I'm surprised I still have the power to be shocked by the inquity of Kippers.

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