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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris is reminded of the Munich Post.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2017 11:36

The Munich Post was the 1930s German Newspaper that refused to normalise. It refused to bow to the threats and intimidation of the Nazi State. It was to eventually closed but it defended the truth to the bitter end.

With Trump’s systematic attacks on the Press and Judiciary we should take heed. We must stand up for our journalists who seek to serve the public rather than serve their masters and only chase profit.

We must ask why, right wing extremists when they make attacks are too frequently labelled simply as lone wolfs who exist within a vacuum, when it is widely accepted by intelligence services that Muslim extremists are often the products of online radicalisation and any element of mental history is totally irrelevant because of their religion.

The PM hiring advertising agents to try and deal with a problem of increasing racial tensions rather than talking to the newspaper executives who she has close relationships with, is a deliberate missing of the point.

It is an abdication of responsibility and is wilfully ignorant.

It is about time we addressed the hole of hatred in our society that exists properly. From all angles and approaches, from all parts of our society. The blind spot in failing to acknowledge how the media’s role in this only serves to fuel the divisions. It has become normalised. Powerful lobbying groups like the Freedom Association continue to deny that populism has contributed to a rise in hate crime pointing to a dislike for how incidents are recorded. Their influence in Westminster is too apparent.

Some of the comments made in the houses of commons and to the media by Tory MPs have been worryingly close to comments made by Trump and his associates. They have been worryingly close to online trolls. They have been laced with too many ‘alternative facts’ and full of exaggerated language about immigrants. Language, its use and context are important and powerful.

These are elected officials with a social responsibility. Instead they are continue to stir things. We no longer need Farage and worry about UKIP. We have a whole bunch of them in the HoC and a quick trawl though Hansard reveals them in all their glory. To a privileged white man they are Trump apologists. During the debate over Trump’s visit to the UK, one even thought it appropriate to woof at a female MP. In 2017.

We might be very British in the way our alternative facts are being expressed but the same threats are very much present within British politics as they are currently in US politics. We might not have anyone quite as brash and brazen as Trump (with the possible exception of Farage), but this makes it more not less dangerous. People like IDS and Johnson add respectably to the thin veneer of hatred and xenophobia.

A50 is likely to pass the commons, without amendment as things stand. (I think we need to watch the Lords with interest) We are perhaps likely to enter a period where things might quieten down in the UK for a time. We must be vigilant and not accept normalisation and continue to make noise about how we feel about the future of this country or we will be dominated by the agenda of these individuals who have little respect for the interests of anyone who is not part of their boys club.

Theresa May may not be one of them, but like Trump she craves their approval and does share many of their values. She is happy to pander to them, and them to her as she makes their toxicity somehow more acceptable.

What women do next is crucial. Do we want to accept this vision of the future? Now is not the time to fall silence and accept that things are equal now. We know the reality. And it affects all of us, regardless of how we voted on 23rd June.

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lalalonglegs · 10/02/2017 09:00

I find that quite heartening, Gloria - the UK will never agree to pay, therefore we're never leaving

Motheroffourdragons · 10/02/2017 09:01

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missmoon · 10/02/2017 09:02

What would happen if we refuse to pay the exit bill? We won't get a trade agreement, but would we be in breach of existing treaties? Or is it all part of the negotiations (pensions, Horizon 2020, reciprocal health care etc.)?

Peregrina · 10/02/2017 09:02

I suppose it depends on how and why Mrs Gove posts. If she posts as a concerned parent like most of us, fine. If she is using it for journalistic purposes not fine.

Does she post in Relationships? I wonder what she would say about Cameron and his family? "We fell out with our best friends on 24th June and they haven't spoken to us since. We don't think it's our fault. Should we try to offer an olive branch?"

CathKidding · 10/02/2017 09:02

According to the Times article Telecoms is a low priority. I find this astonishing seeing that the government and NHS as well as most other sectors (notably banking) have moved or are in the process of moving to paperless communication and transactions. Seeing that in 2017 the UK is lagging behind the world in its telecoms infrastructure the government ought to look to the future of digital communication and citizenship rather than desperately seeking to crawl back to 1950s vintage wonderland.

"The UK is ranked 54th in the world for 4G coverage - that’s bottom in Europe for availability of fibre broadband to the premise - and half of businesses have no access to cheap fibre broadband. The country with the fifth largest economy in the world actually has one of the worst technology infrastructures amongst developed countries. The situation is so bad some have resorted to building their own broadband including a farmer in Lancashire.

Brexit negotiations are due to start in earnest in 2017 and the aim, it’s claimed, is to ensure the UK will become a global trading nation again, attracting businesses from over the world to invest and locate here. However, our backwards infrastructure could become a major barrier.

A number of technology trends are increasing the significance of our poor infrastructure and will place even greater demands on it. In the UK, mobile data traffic2 soared by 64 per cent in 2016 while residential and small business fixed broadband traffic3 grew by 40 per cent."

The prime minister told the world she envisions "a truly Global Britain". How will she achieve this, I wonder, without a world class telecommunications infrastructure?

www.trainingjournal.com/articles/feature/look-future-uk’s-telecoms-2017

Tanith · 10/02/2017 09:05

"Is there some reason why Mrs Gove shouldn't be allowed to post on MN?"

Why on earth would you think that?! Confused It's a public forum!

WrongTrouser · 10/02/2017 09:05

Peregrina Grin

Dapplegrey1 · 10/02/2017 09:14

How do we know Mrs Gove posts here?

Bolshybookworm · 10/02/2017 09:15

I'm starting to wonder which industries are high priority in the Brexit negotiations. We already know that banking, pharma, medical research, atomic energy, clinical trials and manufacturing are being thrown to the wall (judging by the disregard shown to passporting, scientific funding, euratom, ema and the need to stay in the single market/customs union). What are we actually hoping will thrive in shiny new brexitland? Just asking so I can plan my future career when my current industry shrinks Wink

Motheroffourdragons · 10/02/2017 09:19

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lalalonglegs · 10/02/2017 09:19

Jam-making, Bolshy, and possibly whisky as long as those treacherous Scots don't go off in a huff and vote for independence.

RedAndYellowStripe · 10/02/2017 09:20

Gloria what I read is that the uk owes £60bm but negociations will likely bring it to £40bm ish.

So not so much what France or Germany wants (in some ways they don't have a word to say as individual countries) but as in what the uk has committed itself to pay plus pensions and so on.
For what I understand, as long as the uk is still part of the EU, it will STILL commit itself to pay for some stuff therefore that amount might have some variability to it.

prettybird · 10/02/2017 09:20

I used to work in telecoms - selling to other carriers, so all strategic stuff. I still have friends in the industry - including a few who work on the legal/regulatory side. They say that Brexit is going to be an absolute nightmare for all sorts of reasons. Sad

RedAndYellowStripe · 10/02/2017 09:23

That's a bit like the sorry crowd who said they really care about the plight of EU citizens in the UK and wanted them to have certainty and it was the mean old EU preventing it. Then went and voted against that.

YY and as an EU citizen, I have to say I am equally furious and feeling like I have been stabbed in th back by those MPs who have no guts what so ever.

Having said that, it's not new is it? All MPs have always been expected to vote the party line.

GloriaGaynor · 10/02/2017 09:28

So not so much what France or Germany wants (in some ways they don't have a word to say as individual countries) but as in what the uk has committed itself to pay plus pensions and so on.

That was just the Sky wording, I entirely agree that the sum is basically our obligations.

HashiAsLarry · 10/02/2017 09:29

bolshy I'm guessing we're hoping for a decent line in football given the recent vote of no confidence in the fa. Grin

Wrt to the Dubs amendment and TM's view on foreigners:
“The way a government treats refugees is very instructive because it shows you how they would treat the rest of us if they thought they could get away with it.”
Tony Benn

RedAndYellowStripe · 10/02/2017 09:35

The way a government treats refugees is very instructive because it shows you how they would treat the rest of us if they thought they could get away with it.

I would add that we know how TM has treated immigrants in the past when she changed the rules on immigration.
And yes I have always said that this is how she WILL treat EU citizens at the end of it. Because there is one thing I am absolutely sure about is that she will not back down on that score (didn't she say too that the economy you didn't matter anyway, only immigration did?)

RedAndYellowStripe · 10/02/2017 09:41

This made me smile

www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/02/08/donald-trump-mr-men-cartoon-just-superb/

Tanith · 10/02/2017 09:50

"How do we know Mrs Gove posts here?"

People are largely anonymous on here. That's my point. She has been outed in the past, though.

Why are two posters so concerned about Mrs. Gove? I made a passing comment about her having been on MN. I actually thought it was common knowledge, but clearly not.

Are people really not aware that politicians and journalists post on MN? It was set up by journalists, for heaven's sake!

GloriaGaynor · 10/02/2017 10:20

None of the journalists I know post on here.

Kaija · 10/02/2017 11:05

There certainly used to be one or two here. The idea of Sarah Vine being one of them makes me slightly queasy, but I suppose that's just because all her writing makes me slightly queasy.

HashiAsLarry · 10/02/2017 11:13

AFAIK it was pretty much well known, hence the regular 'is that you Mrs Gove?' joke. Jack Monroe is a journalist amongst other things and is on here, albeit openly quite often.

Tanith · 10/02/2017 11:51

Well again, this is my point, Gloria. You don't actually know for sure who is who.

I might be a journalist you know! How can you be sure?

GloriaGaynor · 10/02/2017 12:20

Because we've discussed it. Given that I've known my close friends for over 30 years, they've never shown any inclination to lie, I think they're unlikely to start now.

Kaija · 10/02/2017 12:29

I missed the whole Mrs Gove thing but from what I can gather now she was here specifically to defend her husband on the education threads. Is that right?

Gordon Bennett.

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