Westministenders: Boris and his friends hand in their homework to be marked.

[RedToothBrush]

The last week has been depressing for a lot of people.

Even if you are happy about the vote in the Commons, there is a worrying lack of backbone in MPs of all shades.

Then there’s what is going on in the USA which I’m going to quietly ignore in this post except to say that cosying up to Trump still could backfire on all who do for numerous reasons.

It seems like its all over in someways, but there is still plenty going on.

The A50 Bill has only passed stage one. The Government’s deliberate publishing of the White Paper after the vote has left a lot of people with egg all over their face.

Plus its just crap. Actually its not crap. It’s a dog dinner of farcical proportions with no content, faulty data and incorrect details that an A-Level Student did the night before their assignment was due, masquerading as an official government document.

Now its amendment time, which is the serious bit. For an amendment to make it, it will need cross party support. After the government failed to produce a White Paper worth the paper it was written on, and insulted the intelligence of the House of Commons, that could get interesting.

For starters the White Paper says that EU citizens are one of our best bargaining chips. Trouble is a lot of Tory and Labour MPs don’t agree.

In short there is a fair old chance of a government defeat next week at some point. The government don’t want any. Especially not this early. I really think it will be very difficult for the government to provide the assurance MPs will want, even if they crack the whip. They have lost the trust of too many. In voting for the first vote, many MPs will feel they have shown their intent to support leaving and now will get busy on trying to hammer down the details.

Highlights include of the White Paper include the idea that we will still be subject to the ECJ except we won’t. This is ridiculous. We will be subject to ECJ rulings but not be subject to ECJ rulings directly. Eh? What? (Not that we didn’t see this coming). There’s Euroatom and the government doing an impression of Homer Simpson. With a by-election in Copeland on the cards. That story has some time to keep running. As Steve Peers points out, the Leprechauns are going to sort out Northern Ireland for us which is a great political strategy to employ.

Its full of lots of other utter bollocks but those particular points are the ones that are potentially the most problematic for the government. If you don’t think the White Paper screams we are going to get eaten alive by the EU and Trump, you need to get off the hallucinogenics pronto.

If that isn’t awe inspiring enough we also have:

The wonderful mental image of Paul Nuttall kipping on a mattress in a house in Stoke disparately pretending to be a Stokie, nervously hoping that letterbox rattling in the wind isn’t C4 letterbox again and that the coppers don’t pay him a visit in the near future. I confess that whilst my imagination has been kept busy with this, I am disappointed in the lack of video clips of him munching on an Oatcake in a Stoke City shirt, sitting on an Armitage Shanks throne, turning his plate over whilst listening to Robbie Williams and with a Titanic by his side. All at the same time. I think he’s missed a few tricks.

AND

Diane Abbott doing quite possibly even more damage to Labour than them merely rolling over and dying over a50 by pulling a sickie. Her ‘Brexit Flu’ damages the party’s image and Corbyn himself even more. If that’s even possible. Some Labour MPs have demanded an apology.

Labour is starting to look like it’s a ship with rats fleeing this week. MPs have defied a three line whip and quite the Shadow Cabinet (Again). Rumours are that over 7000 members have left. A councillor has defected to the Lib Dems. There was a council by election in Rotherham where Lab lost a seat to the LDs in an area where there has never been as many people vote LD. Nor were there as many remain voters as LD voters. The Parliamentary vote for Unite’s new leader has unsurprisingly selected the anti-Corbyn candidate Gerald Coyne over Len McCluskey. The bookies have dropped the odds on Corbyn leaving Labour before a GE from 6/1 to 2/1 overnight. Oh and Red Ed is being rumoured to be returning to the front bench…

FFs nothing semi. You and bored attacked GloriaGaynor with
every opinioned opined shot down as wrong. every intention denounced deluded.

YY Bored. For a perfect example of this, please refer to GloriaGaynor's post at 19:39.

As just one extract Gloria said that 'not all Germans hated Jews ....^ So since you took exception to her post, I had to assume that you didn't agree with the statement, which would imply that you thought all Germans did hate Jews.

I dont get it

What was in peregrinas post

Should say i read it and didnt go so it cant have been too bad

If any hijacking has been done, it is actually the hi-jacking of the LGB rights movement by the Ts I genuinely didn't know that. Why would they do this post Stone Wall marriage equality, etc, But thanks, math really eye opening.

My post is still there Rufus - they were attacking another poster (Gloria) who offered what I thought were perfectly valid opinions for part of the post, and a matter of historical record for another part.

I couldn't care less what SP says.

But I think it would be a shame if the infiltration from the Brexit pub resulted in squabbles as it's boring enough having to read their posts.

Your post of 20:49 isnt showing on my machine...is it because you were quoting gloria?

I value this thread for the serious discussions - how Theresa May expects anything to be resolved in two years even the day to day stuff like who pays ex -MEPs pensions, and how we divide up the existing beef quotas is beyond me. Unless she has invented a 100 hour day.

Lico, isn't the whole purpose of ENA to train high achievers to be senior civil servants? Hardly surprising so many of them end up in high offices surely? You can't really compare it with Oxbridge as a whole - the nearest equivalent would be PPE but that's just an arts degree really.

Lico it seems to be a pattern in US bitter division between Bernie and Hillary supporters, and although Fillon and Macron aren't in same party, it is such an opportunity for her, and her speech was on BBC radio news, disgustingly. Watching with interest.
And interesting too about the class and education divide in France.
I was working on a farm near Poitier when the news came through of Jean Paul Satre's death. At the family kitchen table, I commented on it. No one really knew who he was. Probably be the same here though.

What is the ENA?

math and others, thank you for summing up the Trans issues succinctly. Its not an area I've fully understood, still don't, but the posts over the last few days have made things a lot clearer.

These threads are awesome for learning.

Its still not there !!!

Ive only had one glass of wine

For sure Hashi I agree

rufus Don't worry, its gone from my screen too. You're not alone

Sartre was a resistance-dodging, soviet-loving turd. Good writer though.

peregrina I think that is an unfair assumption you made. my post was in general, not to a particular poster. there was no attack by me and id hope that gloria would agree with that. the order that posts appear often dont tally with when they were written...i may have composed that message before glorias post even appeared as to ight I am distracted toilet training a puppy and the posts sit for a while before I complete them.

JamieX Dicks swinging? Where? The White paper was full of it, if you could not spot it then there you are, a manifestation of illusions of entitlement. We have no right to access to the EU where we want it and to turn out back to the rest of it, especuiallybas we sink in the world economic rankings. It is a gift to the EU negotiaters, If I were Berners then my first instinct would be a scaled response, you want access for financial services , then xyz, you want access for scientists abc. These are our strengths, and "negotiating chips" but they are also our achilles heel. I can only hope Berners is more sophisticated, I am sure there are more subtle ways through this to mutual benefit than we can know but then Berners has the problem that whatever clever solution he can offer, 27 countries get a veto some of whom have neither people or economic exposure to consider and can just use this opportunity to express their annoyance at how badly we have behaved.....

TBH bored I don't actually read your posts so I've no idea. I don't care either way.

You are not entirely at fault there bored. Semi's post singled out a specific posting made by Gloria, which as I have already said, seemed a perfectly valid opinion to hold about German citizens pre war, and UK citizens now and the rabble rousers then and now like Farage.

There's no plan on what to do with agencies once we back out of them
We have 2 years to sort that stuff out.

I think that a second referendum on the deal would be very significant if three options were on the table
Can any of the very intelligent remainers on this thread explain why the EU would give us a good if they knew a referendum was on the table at the end to keep us in the EU?

I can tell you they have more intelligence in their little fingers than Theresa May has in her whole body Ahhh that is the dick swinging someone was talking about. Very weird on a forum populated with women. I bet TM couldn't run a nuclear power plant any more than a nuclear scientist could run the country.

So, the amendments document, shows what a lot of you have been saying, it is an extraordinary endeavour, and the range of organisations, legal frameworks, and constitutional necessities for agreement by all British countries, is immense.

The parliamentary sovereignty bit and the referenda on the final deal seem key, wonder what their chances are and if Diane Abbot's absence from the vote signals a growing revolt on Labour benches.

ron happy with the 'dick swinging' metaphor, sums up current strategies nicely.

PS this is a friendly thread.

well i appreciate the honesty, it does explain the complete breakdown of communication on both sides.

But since my posts did get deleted with a link to the guidelines, I have pointed out to MN that other posts have been allowed to stand, despite containing ad hominem attacks, which aren't supposed to be allowed.

There was no 'ad hominem attack' Peregrina.