Westministenders: Boris and his friends hand in their homework to be marked.

[RedToothBrush]

The last week has been depressing for a lot of people.

Even if you are happy about the vote in the Commons, there is a worrying lack of backbone in MPs of all shades.

Then there’s what is going on in the USA which I’m going to quietly ignore in this post except to say that cosying up to Trump still could backfire on all who do for numerous reasons.

It seems like its all over in someways, but there is still plenty going on.

The A50 Bill has only passed stage one. The Government’s deliberate publishing of the White Paper after the vote has left a lot of people with egg all over their face.

Plus its just crap. Actually its not crap. It’s a dog dinner of farcical proportions with no content, faulty data and incorrect details that an A-Level Student did the night before their assignment was due, masquerading as an official government document.

Now its amendment time, which is the serious bit. For an amendment to make it, it will need cross party support. After the government failed to produce a White Paper worth the paper it was written on, and insulted the intelligence of the House of Commons, that could get interesting.

For starters the White Paper says that EU citizens are one of our best bargaining chips. Trouble is a lot of Tory and Labour MPs don’t agree.

In short there is a fair old chance of a government defeat next week at some point. The government don’t want any. Especially not this early. I really think it will be very difficult for the government to provide the assurance MPs will want, even if they crack the whip. They have lost the trust of too many. In voting for the first vote, many MPs will feel they have shown their intent to support leaving and now will get busy on trying to hammer down the details.

Highlights include of the White Paper include the idea that we will still be subject to the ECJ except we won’t. This is ridiculous. We will be subject to ECJ rulings but not be subject to ECJ rulings directly. Eh? What? (Not that we didn’t see this coming). There’s Euroatom and the government doing an impression of Homer Simpson. With a by-election in Copeland on the cards. That story has some time to keep running. As Steve Peers points out, the Leprechauns are going to sort out Northern Ireland for us which is a great political strategy to employ.

Its full of lots of other utter bollocks but those particular points are the ones that are potentially the most problematic for the government. If you don’t think the White Paper screams we are going to get eaten alive by the EU and Trump, you need to get off the hallucinogenics pronto.

If that isn’t awe inspiring enough we also have:

The wonderful mental image of Paul Nuttall kipping on a mattress in a house in Stoke disparately pretending to be a Stokie, nervously hoping that letterbox rattling in the wind isn’t C4 letterbox again and that the coppers don’t pay him a visit in the near future. I confess that whilst my imagination has been kept busy with this, I am disappointed in the lack of video clips of him munching on an Oatcake in a Stoke City shirt, sitting on an Armitage Shanks throne, turning his plate over whilst listening to Robbie Williams and with a Titanic by his side. All at the same time. I think he’s missed a few tricks.

AND

Diane Abbott doing quite possibly even more damage to Labour than them merely rolling over and dying over a50 by pulling a sickie. Her ‘Brexit Flu’ damages the party’s image and Corbyn himself even more. If that’s even possible. Some Labour MPs have demanded an apology.

Labour is starting to look like it’s a ship with rats fleeing this week. MPs have defied a three line whip and quite the Shadow Cabinet (Again). Rumours are that over 7000 members have left. A councillor has defected to the Lib Dems. There was a council by election in Rotherham where Lab lost a seat to the LDs in an area where there has never been as many people vote LD. Nor were there as many remain voters as LD voters. The Parliamentary vote for Unite’s new leader has unsurprisingly selected the anti-Corbyn candidate Gerald Coyne over Len McCluskey. The bookies have dropped the odds on Corbyn leaving Labour before a GE from 6/1 to 2/1 overnight. Oh and Red Ed is being rumoured to be returning to the front bench…

Cecile what do you think of this stuff. I find it quite sinister too.

Yet we don't hear much about it in the EU - easier to yell about Trump the neighbour and quietly ignore whats going on at home....

I am sure those of you with the higher ideals will be shocked.

"Many European politicians treat migrants — and, in particular, Muslims — more disgracefully than they are being dealt with by Trump"

"Hungary’s Prime Minister, Viktor Orban, wants to build a ‘massive’ fence to stop refugees crossing into his country from the East. He calls migrants ‘a poison’ that Hungary ‘won’t swallow’"

"he is seen as a valued colleague and friend. His Fidesz party is in the same political grouping in the European Parliament as Mrs Merkel’s Christian Democrats. They work together at European summits, planning a common strategy.

"Yet this man is much more bigoted than Trump. But do we ever hear talk of banning Orban from travelling to Brussels?

Does Nick Clegg make strident Commons speeches about the pernicious Hungarian?

The Prime Minister of neighbouring Slovakia, Robert Fico, said last year that Islam had ‘no place’ in his country. He speaks of the need to ‘monitor every Muslim’ and won’t let a single Muslim refugee enter his country.

"With other chilling views — such as describing journalists as ‘dirty, anti-Slovak prostitutes’ — he almost makes Trump sound like an Islington Leftie"

"Again, where are the denunciations of this man (who has the gall to call himself a Social Democrat) from Mrs Merkel, Labour’s Yvette Cooper, who this week urged the Government to have the ‘guts to speak out’ over Trump’s immigration ban, the liberal Left or the Guardian newspaper?

As for Jeremy Corbyn, despite saying he is ‘not concerned about numbers’ of migrants, he (along with his fellow Socialist, President Francois Hollande of France) is a member of the same European political group as the virulently anti-immigration Slovakian prime minister.

Incidentally, Hollande’s criticism of Trump has been ferocious, while Corbyn has joined the clamour for Trump’s State visit to Britain to be cancelled.

"Yesterday, I scoured the internet for any condemnation by either Hollande or Corbyn of their bigoted fellow European Socialist party leader. I couldn’t find even a veiled criticism of an inflammatory man who has vowed to stop Muslims ‘destroying the cultural identity of Europe’. It is very plain that a double standard is operating."

This widespread and odious hostility to migrants in mainland Europe is one of the main reasons (along with the EU’s economic failure) why I voted Leave in last year’s referendum.

That decision has been vindicated by the shameless double standards of many European leaders. They endeavour to make themselves look good by expressing anger about Trump. But they are hypocrites.

Meanwhile, there’s been a great deal of idle talk in some sections of the British media about the rise of fascism in the U.S. That may be a genuine worry. But the truth is that the rise of fascism is a far bigger threat across today’s continental Europe than in America — in large part because, sadly, it is in the DNA of so many European countries.

Agree Rebecca Long Bailey was very good on QT this week.

Well to take one example of the wonderful clarity or lack of.
May's government has decided to pull out of Euratom. This is a completely separate treaty, long predating the Maastricht and Lisbon agreements.

Firstly, the Senior Management had no notice that this was going to happen.
Secondly, what will replace it? In the normal course of events one might expect the Senior Management to have an input into this, but since it came as a bolt from the blue, this hasn't happened yet. At the moment the plans are...............Nothing, just a vague hope that something will come along.
Thirdly, where in the Referendum were 'the people' asked whether they wanted to pull out of Euratom? Since the only thing that matters now apparently is 'the will of the people'.

Do you call that clarity?

I think that saying fascism is "in the DNA" of anyone, anywhere, is deeply shocking. There are understandable reasons that it might appeal to people in certain circumstances, but to imply there is a biological determinism about it and particularly to introduce a racial or nationalistic element to that is in my view wrong.

As for Orban and the protests against Trump, I've actually written about thinking the protests against Trump are wrongly directed. Trump is a concern because of the soft power and influence, as well as military capability, wielded by America is so much greater than, say, Hungary. If we protested against every such leader nothing else would ever get don (and please remind me, when was Orban's last state visit to the UK, and Theresa May's to Hungary?) Diane Abbott refers to Trump as the "leader of the free world" - I have a lot of problems with that but it does express why having Trump as President is more of a concern than having a fascist leader in Hungary. I didn't go to protest against Trump in the end, I was working very late at the office and stayed later to send a few emails to my MP about Brexit specifically.

I know a few pensioners in France who are living in fear because as things stand at the moment their pensions will not meet the income figure, 1485 Euros, per person (no account taken of outgoings e.g. having bought a house outright so no outgoings on rent or mortgage) that France has set as a condition of residency. www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F17359

They will have to sell up, probably in a fire sale, as the community tends to be concentrated in certain areas. They moved there in the first place partly because property and living costs are cheaper. On return they will not be entitled to benefits here, beyond their pension, for six months. These are real people, in the tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands, living in fear of being thrown into poverty, as a result of the vote.

I do think that having a fascist leader in Hungary is a problem - I am just now waiting for May and her Government to cosy up to him.

I know a few pensioners in France who are living in fear because as things stand at the moment their pensions will not meet the income figure,

Not only that - we don't know whether arrangements will be made to uprate state pensions in line with UK ones as is done at present. Don't assume it will necessarily happen - state pensions paid to UK citizens in Canada and Australia are frozen at the rate when they leave the country, and at present there are no plans to alter this.

I believe that the Tory Govt made a rule that Private pensions could only be paid in the UK and not paid elsewhere (even though this should be a matter for the firm and the individual concerned.)

I can envisage a number of elderly pensioners having to return as ron says, after a fire sale. These are real people who were denied a vote, despite it being a Tory manifesto commitment to enfranchise them and one which made it as far as a Queen's speech, but then fell by the wayside.

I am sure that Merkel thinks the Hungarian leader is a problem. He makes a lot of noise in the EU about his fence and an EU army to patrol his borders but it has not got him anywhere because he is 1 of 27 and he is always outvoted / vetoed.

I am sure that Trump is a much bigger threat to the world economically, politically and militarily. The reason that EU leaders cold shouldered appeaser May is that they have the security of the power of the EU to enable them to stand up for the interests of Europe. They are in no need of desperately brownosing to a man who is very clear indeed about furthering his interests, as an individual first, a Christian white man second and an American third.

That is different from the Carte de Séjour though ron, which doesn't have that figure. I thought it for the foyer rather than individual though? I think it is the figure for assurance maladie under PUMA if you don't have an S1 too?

The fall in the pound is a far bigger problem than state pension increases though.

The fall in the pound is a far bigger problem than state pension increases though.

They are both a huge problem.The state pension is currently just over £100 a week for a full pension. Imagine if you left the country when it was £20 a week to go to Canada, and you had no uplift after that. This is after paying for 40 years. I suppose the cynical argument is that such people are going to be elderly so will die soon.

Canada and Australia are going to be our new best mates, don't forget.

That's my feeling re the pound but growth is still being revised upwards
I'm baffled
Esp with news that services growth is down for the first time since sept

Emily I am just relaying the conversations that are going on between pensioners I know, and they have confirmed the figure is per person, and irrespective of outgoings. Yes the fall in the pound has already hit their living standards hard, to the extent that they have had to change their diet to reduce food costs.

These communities also support young Brits, who work as tradesman for the English speaking communities. Their income will also be hit.

Dhs cousin has just moved to France (but he's loaded so won't be an issue for him I guess)
In fact he and his wife don't seem to bothered at all and went through with the same AFTER the brexit vote 🤔

DebbieDowner It's good form when you're copy and pasting from somewhere else to give a link to the source, otherwise it comes across that you are passing off someone else's words as your own.

Source article: www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4190456/PETER-OBORNE-Truth-EU-bigoted-US.html

Gawd, now that IS embarrassing.

You seem all fired up Debbie. By a right wing writer in a Daily Mail article? Does that not ring any alarm bells / worry you at all?

*Semi the British people voted to leave the EU. We screwed our own people living abroad without thought. We can't blame that on the EU. There is nothing to stop the UK from taking the moral high ground and unilaterally give full rights to EU citizens. One of the reasons they don't want to do this is because it would also reveal what rights will be removed from British citizens.

I think it's easier to blame the EU for bargaining chips rather than take responsibility for how you voted and the direct implications of that.

It's just a way of distancing and passing the buck.*

I disagree (unsurprisingly!)

I voted to Leave the EU.
What happens re EU citizens is a factor of this vote (obviously).

The morally correct thing to do is for both UK & EU to remove any doubt and agree that all citizens who are currently in a position where they have made a life and/or work within UK/EU are protected.

I am not 'blaming the EU' for anything, other than their reticence to do this.
The UK has already said they will, but not unless the EU reciprocate; the EU will not do this until after A50 is triggered.
The ball therefore rests wholly in the EU's court at the moment and they are refusing to do anything.

I am not 'blaming the EU rather than taking responsibility for how I voted'.
I voted to Leave the EU.
I would do so again.
The fact that the EU is refusing to discuss the status of their/our citizens is solely down to the EU.

That's interesting ron. We are just looking at getting the carte de séjour and that figure isn't in the documentation we have or the Connexion article www.connexionfrance.com/carte-de-sejour-permanent-prefecture-Brexit-12195-news-article.html
I would have expected it to be on the forums too, but haven't seen it. I think the problem is that there are various cards and some prefectures give different advice. We have to show tax forms and pension statements, but per person that would be an extraordinarily high figure.

to those in France caught up in this

To be fair, if you strip out the typical hyped-up Mail rhetoric, Oborne does have a point that we shouldn't let opposition to Trump allow us to lose focus on the problem of the growing far-right within Europe.

Semi - I just don't see why you have a problem with the EU wanting to follow the rules laid down. Theresa May and Trump may well think they can get away with making up the rules as they go along, but that doesn't make their actions right. We like to think that we are civilised societies. We are now finding this assumption being tested.

May's Government is like a spoilt member of a club, who have spent their time saying they don't like this and they don't like that, and now expect the other party to take a guess on what they might not like in future, and if they guess wrong, then a tantrum will ensue. It would be exasperating in a toddler, but expected. For a Government, it's just made a once respected nation look a complete laughing stock.

An alternative viewpoint. Perhaps America does need to learn from what has already happened in Hungary ?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/05/hungary-right-trend-us-viktor-orban-donald-trump?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Oborne does have a point that we shouldn't let opposition to Trump allow us to lose focus on the problem of the growing far-right within Europe.

Indeed - so which Politicians have congratulated May on Brexit and her meeting with Trump? Guess what - just those same far right politicians.